{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/qf8jd4rk0j/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Tamika Middleton: “Building a radical dependency”"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/699/original/Georgia_Dusk_Tagline_Primary_2x.png?1750685138","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Holding Repository"]},"value":{"en":["Georgia Dusk"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Sound"]}},{"label":{"en":["Genre"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history interviews"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2022-12-08 (captured)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Datricia Rollins (Interviewer)","Ashby Combahee (Interviewer)","Tamika Middleton (Interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright to this material is held by Georgia Dusk: a southern liberation oral history. Requests for permission to publish should be directed to: info@georgiadusk.com.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eMiddleton, Tamika. “Building a radical dependency.” Interviewed by Ashby Combahee \u0026amp;\u003cbr\u003eDartricia Rollins. 8 December 2022, Georgia Dusk: a southern liberation oral history,\u003cbr\u003egeorgiadusk.com.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Georgia Dusk: a southern liberation oral history"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eTamika is the Managing Director of Women's March. She is an organizer, doula, midwifery apprentice, writer, and unschooling mama who is passionate about and active in struggles that affect Black women’s lives. Tamika has organized for abolition, reproductive justice, and for domestic workers’ rights. She is a consultant with Winds of Change Consulting, and a founding member of the Metro Atlanta Mutual Aid (MAMA) Fund and JustGeorgia. She serves as a Community Advisory Board member of Critical Resistance, a Leadership Team member of the Kindred Southern Healing Justice Collective and as treasurer of the board of the Organization for Human Rights and Democracy.\u003c/p\u003e (scope content)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["Location: Zoom call from Tamika's East Point home"]}},{"label":{"en":["Duration"]},"value":{"en":["02:33:36"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eTamika is the Managing Director of Women's March. She is an organizer, doula, midwifery apprentice, writer, and unschooling mama who is passionate about and active in struggles that affect Black women\u0026rsquo;s lives. Tamika has organized for abolition, reproductive justice, and for domestic workers\u0026rsquo; rights. She is a consultant with Winds of Change Consulting, and a founding member of the Metro Atlanta Mutual Aid (MAMA) Fund and JustGeorgia. She serves as a Community Advisory Board member of Critical Resistance, a Leadership Team member of the Kindred Southern Healing Justice Collective and as treasurer of the board of the Organization for Human Rights and Democracy.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright to this material is held by Georgia Dusk: a southern liberation oral history. Requests for permission to publish should be directed to: info@georgiadusk.com.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Georgia Dusk"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Georgia Dusk"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/699/original/Georgia_Dusk_Tagline_Primary_2x.png?1750685138","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/276/138/small/Tamika-384x400.jpg?1748962863","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Tamika_Middleton__edited_.m4a"]},"duration":9216.92469,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/276/138/small/Tamika-384x400.jpg?1748962863","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-georgiadusk.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/276/138/original/Tamika_Middleton__edited_.m4a?1779907614","type":"Audio","format":"audio/wav","duration":9216.92469,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Tamika Middleton Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton: “Building a radical dependency”\n\nDecember 8, 2022\n\nInterviewed by Dartricia Rollins and Ashby Combahee\n\nCitaton: Middleton, Tamika. “Building a radical dependency.” Interviewed by Ashby Combahee \u0026 Dartricia Rollins. 8 December 2022, Georgia Dusk: a southern liberation oral history, georgiadusk.com.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=0.0,2.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee \n\nThat's one going let me know when you are ready to Dartricia.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=2.0,5.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins \n\nI think we hit the button at the same time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=5.0,11.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee \n\nOh ok. [laughs] Well to get things started let me get us an introduction. My name is Ashby Combahee, and I'm here today with our Dartricia Rollins. We are interviewing Tamika Middleton for Georgia Dusk: a southern liberation oral history project. Today is Thursday, December 8th [2022], and we are conducting this oral history over Zoom. You have been asked to participate in Georgia Dusk, an oral history conducted by Ashby Combahee and Dartricia Rollins. The project is partnered with the Spelman College archives, a component of the women's research and resource center, founded by the iconic black feminists Dr. Beverly Guy Sheftall and which serves to document the experiences of contemporary black feminist scholars, activists and cultural workers. The purpose of Georgia Dusk is to gather and preserve firsthand narratives of organizers and cultural workers who have a connection to Georgia and who are part of the Southern Freedom Movement. The oral history interviews provide elements of history that are often not apparent in traditional archival documents or in dominant media. When used with other research materials, the oral histories help to provide a more holistic view of history. So with that, Tamika - To start us off, can you please introduce yourself by saying your name, your pronouns, your age, and your work in the field of reproductive justice?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=11.0,110.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton\n\nMy name is Tamika Middleton. I am 39. Now [laughs] had a birthday since we last up and I use she her pronouns. And I have been in reproductive justice as an organizer probably since 2004, 2005? 2004, for sure. And help- I'm also a birth worker, and have been in the kind of birth justice realm of the world of repro for a long time as well. I've been I've been a doula for -my kid's 15- 13 years. And I'm also a midwife, midwife apprentice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=110.0,168.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee \n\nSo we'd like to start things off to make at the very beginning. Tell us where and when were you born and who raised you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=168.0,176.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nI was born actually in Killeen, Texas. My parents were in my dad was in the army. So I was born at at Killeen Army - Darnall Army Hospital in Fort Hood right outside or in Killeen, actually, and, but I don't remember any of that. I was raised by my mom and my dad. And on St. Helena Island, South Carolina. South Carolina Sea Islands. And in a very tight knit family. Our house was in a little compound with with my dad's side of the family. So my house, my auntie's house next door, my other auntie right here, living in the house that my dad grew up in my grandma's house right there, my grandfather actually across the street, my auntie behind... So like, just this little compound of just my family. And then with my dad's family, and my mom's family actually down the road and the same kind of similar setup. So really, like walking distance, and my parents grew up walking distance from each other. So yes, so that's what I was. That's who I was raised by. And then also in like a very close community, of folks who really, really poured into me. Our elementary school, we have one Elementary School on the island, on St. Helena, and I was so was very poured into there. Like my elementary school principal, was at my high school graduation. And all of her babies she got up when they got called to walk across the stage. And she gave us a big hug, and, and all of that, and so it's very important to there. And then also was very important to the pen Penn Center, which was formerly the Penn School is on St. Helena islands. And I was in the youth programs there. And that was really where I began sort of thinking about myself as a part of a larger black community. Through my interactions with the principal, my grandfather was the docent at the museum at the Penn School until he was 90 right when the pandemic started and we were like, please sit down somewhere. But it was very, very much poured into it at the Penn School at Penn Center as well by the the ED at the time it was the Emory Campbell and also by the folks who ran the youth program which was paced like the T leadership component of the of the youth program. And by the churches, my grandma church was my mom's churches like all this stuff. Oh, by the church folks is very, very poured into in a very tight knit community.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=176.0,326.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee \n\nYeah, I mean, I would love to hear some more like details and descriptions of what that was like being raised in such a tight knit community. I mean, particularly your relationship with your parents. And I'm curious, did you have siblings?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=326.0,341.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nYes, I have one sibling who is 10 years younger than me, almost to the day he was born exactly a week before my 10th birthday. It's who actually lives in Atlanta now. And so yes, we are very close but in a different way, like because we're so far apart. But I left. I graduated high school at 16 and went away to college. And so I almost was like, I was gone for most of his growing up. So I was more like, so like, Auntie sister. That's sort of the relationship we had. My mom is like, it's legit, my best friend. We talk many, many times every single day, if I haven't heard from her, and it's like five o'clock in the evening, I'm calling her like, where are you? Why didn't you call me today? Like, that's the kind of relationships that we have very, very tight knit. My dad, we have a good relationship, but it's been a journey. I stood at the at the road waiting for the school bus with my cousins. And then if you kept if you walk down the street, like, if you walk up the distance between my dad's family where my grandma, my dad's mama lives and where my mom's mom lives. There's a whole bunch of cousins, like second, third, fourth cousins in between. So like the whole kind of strip is family. And so actually the land that my mom's house is on right now, which is where my -my parents divorced when I when I went away to college- but um, where my mom's house is now is on her family land. And that land has been in her family on her father's side since the 1800s. So if you look at the 1880 census, it's that's her her ancestors there. So since going back to the Port Royal Experiment, in the 1860s, we've had that land in our family. So it's very grounding. Very, like, you know, connected. And so because our because our families in my mind, the my, my mom's family, her mother's side is also rooted there. And my mom's family on my, my dad's family, his mother's side is also generations, generations generations deep. To the to the extent that my paternal grandmother's brother is married to my paternal, my maternal grandfather, sisters, I have cousins that are my family, my, my family on both sides, like some real country shit, right. But my dad's father was adopted, his adopted family, is generations deep, on St. Helena's Island as well. And so he grew up there, but his biological family's from Philadelphia. But yeah, it was wonderful growing up in such a tight knit community. I always had people around, I always had people who believed in me, who poured into me everywhere I turned. And I mean, when I was a kid, it's very different. Now, you know, times are very different. But when I was a kid, there wasn't like, there was there were noticeably people who had who were like, not as well off. But there weren't there weren't anybody there wasn't anybody was homeless. They weren't like people who didn't who like even people who have not notably the people who you would see like kind of wandering, were people who had mental health issues or addictions. And folks still took care of them. Like they would still like Oh, such a such coming to get them coming over to get some food. And mama will take you know, put some food out, you know, have a meal that they will come over, sit down and they will get fed by whoever's house, they stopped at. Like people, you know, because we're in a country, we didn't have public transit. So like, I didn't know this until I got older, that I remember that my auntie used to take me to school because I went to a Christian school, little small, black run Christian School. And when I was a kid, black owned Christian school when I was a kid, and my auntie used to take me in my office to pick me up. But I didn't really I didn't recognize it was because we didn't have a car. Or we had one car. My dad had picked the car to work further away. He worked on Hilton Head, which is like an hour's drive almost 45 minutes. And so he had to take the care to my mom, had to actually catch a ride to work every day. And so how that works on the island, even like even now is you just start walking, or you start walking and eventually somebody will stop and pick you up and give you a ride to wherever you're going. So you never had to like coordinate like, Can I get a ride here? Like you've literally you just be walking in, you see somebody like, hey, you need a ride where you're going, and somebody will just drop you off on their way.  And so that's the kind of community it was like my, when I was growing up, my grandfather still grew - he still raised animals and he still, you know, grew food and things. But I don't have any actual memory of my family selling things. So my grandfather is also a carpenter. And my my recollection of my childhood, it was primarily like he grew things. He grew food until he passed like my grandfather worked until he died at 85. And he worked until he could no longer work when he had prostate cancer. And like it took him out like he had a spinal injury. It took him out of the game when he was like in his 80s, and it's early 80s. But he was literally on folks roofs. Like until he could literally no longer like I remember my grandfather literally falling off of my roof, trying to fix fix everything and getting back up and climbing back up the ladder. Like that's the kind of person he was. But I just- so anyway, all that to say that he grew- like he was a farmer. But I don't remember him actually ever selling any food like it was literally people will come people in the neighborhood and my uncle still do they still grow food. And they just take it to people to elders and the community. And they might trade with other folks like this person had like makes peanut butter. And so they bring some jars of peanut butter over and they trade with my grandma who's jars, the okra and tomatoes. And that's sort of what I how I remember my growing up was very communal and very collective.  And then I have a specific memory of my elementary school, y'all remember, Gullah Gullah islands? So Ron and Natalie, who who were from Gullah Gullah, they lived on St. Helena. And so before the show, they did all of this stuff around Gulla history and culture around the community. So Ron is from St. Helena, like my, my uncle, like, if you look at my uncle's yearbooks, like you'll see picture him when he was younger. And his his sister was actually my high school government teacher, like, So Natalie, she's from another part of the state, but they're all from like, they're all Gullah Geechee folks. But they lived on St. Helena's and I remember being in elementary school, and there was this. The very first of these exchanges between Gullah Geechee folks from South Carolina and Georgia going to Sierra Leone. And then talking about the connection between the cultures, and then bringing folks from Sierra Leone to the, to the sou- to the Sea Islands in South Carolina and Georgia. And so, I can remember being in - I must have been a fifth grade because we were in the new school. And they had a whole like a presentation that was like they had dancers they had brought from Sierra Leone in all these like a big performances like look, we are connected to Sierra Leone, this is your this is your culture, this is you know, your lineage. And so that also feeling very, very grounded and rooted in my blackness and in particular, my African heritage from a very, very young age. Because of all of this like this very, very rich history and culture and while at the same time, like having the sort of language part of it be something that was frowned upon, like you are supposed to speak proper English, you do not speak Gullah, why are you so Geechee right now? Absolutely not. That is not how you go out into the world. But still, like be. And then when I was a kid, people did not call themselves like we had Heritage Festival, there was a Gullah festival. But like people didn't, it was not as not as much of a point of pride for people to individually call themselves Gullah or Geechee. And it was something that like I did not fully like I feel like I was more identified with it than other people in my family. But I didn't actually fully identify with it until I went away to college and had a language professor who was like you from where? Oh, my gosh, I've studied this language. I've studied this culture, this is amazing. So yeah, anyway, I don't want to get on this tangent. But But yeah, all that to say that it was very like, and I was also very involved, I was also very much an achiever at a young age. So the Christian school I went to, like, put you ahead based on just where you were. So they didn't really worry about ages. And so when I moved to public school, I didn't move to public school until I was in a third grade, because they wanted to put me back in the in the grade that would be appropriate for what what they consider appropriate for my age. And so my mama was like, Nope, we're not doing that. And so when I got to third grade, I was six when I started third grade. And so that was how I continued but it wasn't until I was in third grade that they let me like stay in the grade that that so anyway, all that to say I was like always younger than everybody in my class A couple years ago, everybody that I went to school with, and but I was also always an achiever. And so I was like, like I said, I was in a teen leadership program at Penn. I started working at Penn Center in the like, before, I was technically supposed to be able to, like 12 years old, like, organizing files and shit. And what and because of that, like I was student government president, and because of that, I was like, just very much an achiever like everybody just sort of really poured into me because they saw potential in me, and they very much were like, you want to do what you want to come home during the summer at college and shadow me for the summer? Absolutely, I'll make that happen. And so that was sort of the, the vibe and the nurturing that I got.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=341.0,937.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nSo, I want to touch on college, because that seemed kind of like a key departure. But I'm curious being both in a community that was very tight knit, but like a very historic black community. What was your connection with other black Americans, with white folks from South Carolina? Like, I'm curious, what was your- yeah, your context around people who were outside of your community?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=937.0,964.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton \n\nYeah. So one thing I want to say that will I'm sure we'll come back to later, but is that my grandfather, in addition to being a docent at the museum also did tours, for folks who are coming to visit like you would do tours, like historical tours, and so I. So I have very much continue, like very much like direct connection with the sort of the historical nature. But um, I was always much more adventurous. So my family, at least in my household, my mom, my dad, my brother and me, I am by far the most outgoing member of the family and people who know me know me or like, you're not that outgoing. I'm like, I know. But, but I'm definitely the most outgoing member of my family. And I was also much more adventurous. And so from the time I was in the sixth grade, I was going away to college just for the summer, like, almost every summer. So like my first year, not like a super like in middle school wasn't a super departure. So like, I was like, Oh, I'm going to I'm gonna spend the summer Voorhees College, which was in Denmark, South Carolina. So at HBCUs in particular. So I spent the summer at Denmark college. I was 10 years old. I was living in a dorm room at Denmark college. And then like the next summer, I went to basketball camp in South Carolina State in Orangeburg. And then the summer after that, I went spent the summer in Ohio with my aunt, who was in the military, and they were stationed there and every summer, she would bring her cousin to come watch her kids for the summer. She would pay us to watch your kids for summer. So that was my summer. To watch your kids. But then I got to high school. I went to the Citadel for like ROTC camp, but that's still low country, but you know. And then I went to Howard, for the summer, before my senior year, in the summer after my junior year, I spent that summer at Howard. So I was always like going on adventures. I would go with my school, like one year my teachers,  because they they liked me. All my teachers liked me. So they would pick me for programs, where we would just go out of town to do some some leadership program. And so like, I was able to go to like lots of different places and meet lots of different people that way, who are not from this small, very small town in that way. So that was sort of like really my connection. Like we would travel, you know, we will go places, but generally will go places as a whole family. So it will be like 10,15,20 of us rolling deep. Or like on a church trip with a bus full of church folks. But the time when I was really able to, like, Get out of my own shell was like in those summers, where I was going by myself. I was going and there will be people from other places who are also coming into this program. I think that was really it.  And then of course, you know, anybody who's lived in the South knows that if you're in a small town in the South that inevitably there are people who come for the summer. Who get sent to their grandmama house for the summer. And so that was a big part of my interactions too because those people always -  they always had this like, I'm from the city and you're from the country and you are backwards, therefore. So I definitely had like, I it was like a like a two edge thing, right? Because we're watching TV and we're seeing black folks on TV who are from the city you like that's so cool. I want to I'm gonna live in Brooklyn in a brownstone like the Cosby's when I get older. And then you meet New Yorkers. And you're like oh my gosh, why are you mean like [laughter] so it was sort of that thing, where like, I definitely wanted to be where the action was. I definitely wanted to be in a city. And Atlanta was like a place where like, it was a city, but it was still the south. So I was like, I liked like, I love Atlanta. We would go Six Flags all the time. You know, we would take like our band trips, our end of year band trips to Atlanta, to come to six flags. I had a couple of cousins that lived in Atlanta. So I was like, Oh my gosh, like, you know, Atlanta. And then I have some cousins that live in the Bay, who are very much like. \"And I hate it here. I hate it when I have...\" well when they came to the south. \"Like, I hate it here, it's so slow. It's so boring...\" So that was like, really, it was sort of a like I want to be out there with the people are, but also these people think they're better than me, because I'm from the country. Like that kind of thing. And my mom was always like preparing me to leave. You know, she was always like, there's more for you in the world. There's, there's like, you can achieve so much more. And you have to leave here in order to achieve it like you are going to college. You are going out in the world to become something. And so like most of the people when I was growing up, there was like, there was people transitioning from agriculture and fishing, which was a lot. Like there's still a lot of people, there's a lot of farmers and a lot of people who, you know, fish and shrimp and stuff like that. But there was sort of a transition where like, my mom's generation of folks are almost, I would say probably like 70% of those folks who worked on military bases. And my mom started working on the military base when she was 18. So most folks are working for them for the US government for the military in some way, shape, or form or fashion. My mom did not want that for me, she didn't. She was just like \"Nah, you got more to do.\" Even like growing up, when my mom and her siblings would all be helping my grandfather in a field. Like me, my cousins were not allowed to help. Like that was not like- 1) they were like, yeah, gonna slow us down. But 2) this is not your life. Y'all are going away. Y'all are going to college, y'all are going to be professionals. And we all did, we all went away. And some of us came back, some of us didn't.  So it was sort of like I want I knew I wanted to be out there in the world. And I knew I could hold my own because I was doing all the summer programs. I was, you know, in and amongst people. And at the same time, I definitely had like the interactions with folks. And you also saw it on TV at that time, like in the in the 90s. Like, there was always like the country cousin that come - the backward country cousin - that come up and don't know nothing. There was always that trope. And so I definitely felt a need to be prepared to be more city. Like to kind of mask the southern country, the small town that Gullah Geechee, which actually I will say got reinforced more in my freshman year in college, the need to mask. I was in my freshman and sophomore year, probably. So anyway, all that to say that was sort of my interactions. Like I have some really positive ones from going from being away for the summer and having just really broad experiences, but also had some of that like, Oh, you think you're better than me? You think you're smarter than me? You think I backwards? Those interactions as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=964.0,1395.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nSo tell me about college. Where did you end up going? And what was the process for deciding on where you went to college?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=1395.0,1404.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nYeah, I thought I was going to Howard. That was my intention. I thought I was going to Howard I had gotten, like I said I did a summer program the summer before my senior year. And with the summer program, at the end , they were like, and all of you have automatic admission to the school. And when I was like, oh bet! So that's what I for sure thought I was going. But they did not send me my scholarship package until a week before graduation. So I did not go to Howard because they were very, very late. And instead I went to Xavier in New Orleans. Which I loved. I I loved and I had a couple terrible experiences because of my political shaping while I was there. But I went to Xavier. I wanted to be a doctor. So Xavier was like, Oh, this makes total sense. And they gave me a full scholarship, which at that time Xavier full scholarship was only like tuition and books. So I still had to cover like room and board. But I got a ton of scholarships. I also got like a ton like, like Naval ROTC scholarships. So I had to decide whether or not I was going to be Navy ROTC. And I was like, I absolutely do not want to go into the military after college. So no. But I was able to get enough scholarships to cover everything for Xavier for my freshman year. And I got into a summer program which was a big part of the reason why it was too late for me to go to Howard because I had already committed to doing the pre-college summer program before your freshman year at Xavier. And so literally I was a week away from leaving for Xavier when I found out I had got a full ride to Howard. So yeah, so I went to Xavier, I spent the summer there. My freshman year was great. It was amazing. Went back.  And so like when I say that some of them that the masking kind of got reinforced. Even though we're in New Orleans, Xavier has a lot of like,  northerners. A lot of northerners at Xavier, and a lot of middle class, upper middle class folks. A lot of the kids of Xavier alum. Like I remember one of the girls on my hall, her dad was an actual real life rocket scientist. And we were like, What the fuck, that's a real thing? But a lot of our classmates we would joke that, oh, yeah, because we our the scholarship kids. We're not - like a lot of our classmates had more money than we did, than some of us. I would say one of the kind of seminal, like, most memorable experiences I had my freshman year was people making fun of my accent in general. But having a conversation with someone who was not even like a like a northerner in that sense. They were from like Oklahoma, or Oklahoma City. But like city people, like I'm from the city, you're from the country. And literally, looked at me like, Why you talk like a slave? And I was like, oh! And so, you know, for me at home people are like, Oh, you talk so proper? And so when I get away and people like you talk like a fucking slave. I was like, Oh, my God. Let me fix that. And so and then-  Ashby you from New Orleans, right? I remember that correctly. So I don't know. So one of the things about Xavier is in order to go through your junior year, you have to take sophomore comps, one of the sophomore comps was a speech comp. And so you had to take public speaking so in your mind you think oh, I have to do with give a speech? Yes. And they also give you a list of words, that Southern folks in particular New Orleanians do not pronounce in the standard accent. And you had to be able to recite these words proper without your accent in order to successfully move from sophomore into your junior year. If you did not, then they put you in speech therapy. When you became","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=1404.0,1656.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins \n\nThat's so anti black! I'm sorry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=1656.0,1658.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nVery, very, very, very! So it was literally me learning to not say room and broom but like to say room, broom, roof. Like for New Orleanians you know, oil was on there, foil- it was very much a part of, again, me learning to bury my accent. Me learning to mask my accent so much so that after my freshman year in college, I did this program... (Oh my gosh, was the name of the program? It was a study abroad) Oh, crossing borders. It's called Crossing Borders. And basically it was a program they took a set of Xavier students, a set of Spelman students, and a set of students from Dickinson College, and they brought us all to Cameroon, for the summer. So we spent our first week in Cameroon. Like we met each other person in Pennsylvania, we got to spend a week getting to know each other. And then we all went to Cameroon, we spent the first bit of time traveling around the country, going to different sites, reading Fanon and discussing by a fire, like that kind of thing, along with students from the University of Yaoundé. It was great. And then they gave us apartments in the city, in the capital city of Yaoundé. And then we went to classes at the University of Yaoundé. So we lived in the city, you know, not on campus at all. Just a bunch of kind of students in an apartment, in different apartments across the city. So that's also my first summer. We had gotten to Cameroon. We have been there for like maybe three weeks, because somebody was like, wait, you from South Carolina? And I'm like, yeah, they're like, literally, my friends from Crown Heights Brooklyn was like, Girl all the time. I thought you were from New York. Why you sound like you from New York. And I'm like, Oh, I've trained myself to have a New York accent inadvertently. I had not intended to have a New York accent, I had just intended to not have my accent. And so they were literally like, you sound like a New Yorker. And I'm like, Oh, no. And I had not even recognized that that's the accent I had adopted until she said that.  I would say my life was more shaped by New Orleans, then by Xavier itself. Although there were people who I really had like really positive ex- my French teacher though, who ran the French program at Xavier, she's the one who picked me for the study abroad program. She's the one who was like, You're from where you're from the Sea Islands? Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Do you know how important your community is? Like a white woman, a white woman married to a black man whose kids were at Xavier with me, her daughter was there. She, I love her. I still stay in touch with her. Like, literally, she would still to this day send me books. Like, she'll be like, I saw this book and I thought of you and she was put it in the mail for me.  And I had a theology professor. You know, Xavier is the only black Catholic university in the country. And so we had to take theology to graduate. And I had a black priest who was my theology professor who was like, \"I'mma tell y'all the truth. When you say you're giving back, that means you've taken something and you should be very clear that you have taken something. And that puts you in a position to give back.\" And he would say, the thing about Xavier is, Xavier doesn't teach you to contribute to the black community. Xavier prepares you to assimilate into white culture. And I was like, Oh, okay! So when I started to organize, he will be like, Oh, come do a presentation in my class.  So I would say like that transition- how I became a part of the New Orleans community was actually when I got back to Xavier after my so- So we did a summer at in Cameroon. And then we spent the first semester of the year at Dickinson College in Pennsylvania Wild! Dickinson is a large, very well funded PWI. When we arrived, it was a set of us from Xavier, like maybe five to 10, I can't remember exactly how many of us. And then about the same number from Spelman. And then that same semester was the beginning of the Posse program at Dickinson. And so all of a sudden, there were all these black and brown, inner city, black and brown kids, and all these HBCU kids arriving at Dickinson all at the same time. At that point, most of the black folks were athletes when we arrived. And so there was an influx of black and brown people. And it was the wildest experience ever. One, because the facilities were so vastly different. Like, they have so many fucking resources y'all. Like the bio classes, because I was bio pre med at Xavier, and I was like, oh my god, this is a different ballgame. Taking like, anatomy physiology, at Dickinson was just a different ballgame in terms of what they had access to. Like they literally had like animals. And now I would be like, This is terrible. We shouldn't do this. But, you know, 17 year old me was like, Oh my God. Like they literally have animals like that we can- and they have like the EKG like their computer, set it to be EKG machine. So we could like put the animals asleep and then bring them back to life. It was just like wild shit. Like we just didn't have access to it, Xavier. So there was that. But then also, there was me in my French class, I haven't taken French since eighth grade. So it's me and my French class and people being like, I'm an intermediate French, and they're looking at me like, Oh my god, you can speak things like you know things? And I'm like y'all 90% of the French speaking people in the world are Black. Like, what are you talking about? Like 90% of francophone speakers are black folks. But like having some of the other students have experiences like going into the cafeteria and in the Orientation Week and having someone literally approach one of the Posse kids and be like, Oh, I thought all black people had tails. And like literally, right? Literally, a number of them being like I have never and honest to God being with with all sincerity being like I have never met a black person in real life. And I was like, What the fuck? Like where are you from? But  them being from like small town Maine with like 10 people in the graduating class. They had actually never met anybody who was not white. And we were their first black. Do you know how jarring it is to be somebody's first black person? Like that is a jarring experience. But of course we may home like I started volunteering at the Y across the railroad tracks where the black folks were. So like tutoring elementary school students. And so like really getting involved in a community there. Working at the cafe, like really building a community on campus there. But it was very interesting because like, before the end of the semester, they put out new materials like promotional materials. And we were in all their materials and I'm like, I do not go to the school, why am I in your promotional? Why am I the black people in your promotional materials? I do not like this. But of course, Dickinson is in central Pennsylvania. It's like a short drive to Philly to DC to New York. So even travel, it was great. But I definitely my parents came to pick me up from Dickinson. And my dad always jokes, like we picked up a different child, than we dropped off, because I had them stop at the Barnes and Noble on the way and I bought The Autobiography of Malcolm X and Assata. And I read those on the way home as we drove from Pennsylvania to South Carolina.  So anyway, all that to say when we got back to Xavier, the next semester, I was an activist. I was a militant at that point. And I had always kind of like I said, I had always kind of had community-centered tendencies. I had a cousin that lived in DC and she would send me books from black bookstores in DC when I was a small child like African kings and queens, 100 Amazing Facts About The Negro, the five Negro president, she was sent me those kinds of things when I was coming up. I always kind of had like a more black centered lens, but like definitely having been in Cameroon, and experienced Cameroon and read Fanon and and discuss. We read Heart of Darkness, in high school, Conrad and then we discussed it. And so it was a very different discussion, discussing that book in high school, where it was only three black students in the class and my AP class, then discussing it in Yaoundé, Cameroon with Professor Mark Papay, who was from the Ivory Coast. And it was a very different discussion. So it was like when I went when I finished Crossing Borders, I was absolutely a militant and ready to to go.  Oh, and I will name like to the repro part of this conversation was we had in Crossing Borders, in a part of our program, we had to do a research project. And my project was actually on repro. Because at that point, when I graduated from high school, my intention was to become a reproductive endocrinologist. That was my goal. When I was a kid, before my brother was born, my mom had been pregnant with twins when I was in elementary school. And she actually had a miscarriage with her twins. So when you when you are pregnant with twins, when you're pregnant, normally, there are two sacks right, there's the inner kind of sac and there's an outer. And so with twins, the ideal situation is for the twins to each have their own set of sacks. Sometimes they'll each have, you know, both sac, sometimes they'll have one sac and a then they'll have one that's around both of them. With my mom's twins, they were both in the same sac. Now I didn't understand all of this at the time, but they were both in the same sac. And so one of them passed. And the doctors did not catch it. And so they were still for quite some time. And the other twin got wrapped in the umbilical cord of the first one, and strangled itself to death. And so that was a really formative experience for me. And not long before that, my cousin, who was much older cousin. So you know, you got your big cousin that you really look up to, like she was much older to the point where she was more like my mom's younger sibling that she was like her niece. And so she had a best friend named Nilsa. And Nilsa became pregnant. And Nilsa was ashamed of being pregnant, and so did not get any prenatal care, and then died in childbirth. So those things both happened to me, like, they happen in my life. They didn't happen to me directly, but they happen in my life, like when I was around fourth, fifth grade. And so they had kind of cemented in my mind that I was going to do something to help people not die in childbirth. And so when my mom had my brother, her OB was this woman named Dr. Sherman. And Dr. Sherman she was a black woman OB and she talked to me in the room. Because when my mom had my brother, she almost died. Also this I did not fully understand as a child. I learned much more when I got older. But my mom was in a hospital for a full week after she had my brother. She almost was in a hospital on my birthday, which like, you know, as a small child I was like how dare you? I was resenting this little baby, right? I think she actually was in a hospital on my birthday and she came home shortly after. But she was in the hospital for quite some time. And she had developed some kind of infection. My mom has scoliosis, so they had to put her all the way to sleep when she had my brother, when she was having a C section. And she was getting her tubes tied but she had developed some kind of infection. They were like, \"there's nothing we can do on except get this really expensive, very rare medicine.\" And my grandmother, which I learned later, my grandmother like stepped in and took charge. There was apparently some tension between my dad and my grandmother at this point, because my grandma was like this my baby. My mom was the youngest. And my grandma's like, this is my baby, absolutely the fuck not. So she took over, and she was like, \"I don't care what that medication costs, we're going to get it and you are going to save my child's life.\" So all these things are happening. So my mom was in this hospital for a whole week, and they're keeping this for me, of course. I'm nine. But like, my mom's in the hospital for a whole week, I'm sitting in the hospital with Dr. Sherman. And Dr. Sherman is like, \"what you want to be when you grow up?\" I want to help people who are having babies. She was like, \"you're gonna be a doctor. Don't let anybody tell you you're gonna be a nurse, because they always want to tell women and they always want to tell black girls that they have to be a nurse. You're not going to be a nurse, you're going to be a doctor.\"  (And my daughter just woke up and she's sitting here like it's like, not to her like yet.)  But she's like, you're gonna be a doctor. So when I got to high school - again, like speaking to the people pouring into me, like, like I said, Dr. Sherman really pouring into me - when I got to high school, I had two white male teachers, my sophomore year, Mr. Keisling in math and Mr. Pontius in English. And they both pulled me to the side and was like, listen, you're brilliant. And you're a black girl. And because of that, people are going to try to keep you from being, achieving what you can achieve, they're gonna tell you what you can't do. You got to tell them what you can do. You have to know and be sure what you can do. And you are capable of doing whatever it is. So all these people just really fucking pouring into me and being like, we see you. We gonna tell you the truth. That shit gonna be hard because people are going to hold you back and you're not like we're not going to have that.  I was an IB student in high school. And so for IB you have to do like this big project, this big research paper at the end. And so at the end, knowing I wanted to be an OB GYN No, I want to go into into medicine. At that point. I don't know if y'all remember this TV show from the 90s Y'all are younger than me so y'all might not know the TV show called Empty Nest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=1658.0,2557.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nYes","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=2557.0,2558.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton \n\nOkay, like Golden Girls spin off. So Empty Nest, and in Empty Nest he is an OB, but he has a free clinic. So in my mind, I'm like, I'm going to become an OB that has a free clinic like that is what I want to do with my life. I'm going to serve people like Nilsa, who, who would not normally get prenatal care and make sure that they get the care they need. So they they live. Well, I discovered somehow in my research, project in IB, I discovered reproductive endocrinology and I was like, Oh, you can help people who can't have babies have babies? That's the move. I want to do that.  So anyway, I don't even remember how I got on this shit, to be honest with you. But the repro I know, we was talking about repro stuff. But um, but yeah, so when I got back to Xavier, oh, no, that's how I got on it  In Cameroon, so at this point, I knew I wanted to be a doctor. So I did a research project where I was interviewing people who worked at clinics, about family planning, who worked in Cameroon, like what family planning looks like in Cameroon. And this is where I learned about the laws in the US. And I'm blanking right now on the name of it. But the ones that prevent NGOs supporting abortion access in countries and in countries around the world. So the US wouldn't fund NGOs that will support abortion access. And so this is where I learned about this. Then my project kind of shifted, so that when I got back home for the rest of the summer, I started shadowing a doctor for the rest of the summer. We had a Planned Parenthood office- it was a clinic but it didn't provide abortions on Lady's Island, which is right next to St. Helena. And so I went there and I interviewed folks there about family planning and abortion access in the US. And what I did not realize before I got there was that, one: I didn't realize that the clinic was located where it was. But I knew that there was something there because when I was in high school, we had to drive past it to get to my school on the school bus. And there would be people outside, you know, anti-abortion protests outside with the posters of the dead fetuses, all that stuff. Which I wasn't really paying attention to when I was in high school like it wasn't a thing I cared about like that. But when I went to interview, I was like, Oh, this makes so much sense! She's like, \"Yeah, what's interesting about it is that we don't even provide abortions at this at this location. But because of the anti protesters, we have to shut this location down.\" So they were literally weeks away from shutting down the clinic, when I went to interview them. So all of this is like very, very formative for me. And how I'm thinking about my approach to work, and I'm thinking about my life's work.  When I got back to Xavier, I'm finishing my interviews. I'm finishing my big project for Crossing Borders, but I also want to get involved, I want to be active. And so I joined the college chapter of NAACP. This is the extent of my understanding of activism at this point in life. So I joined the college chapter NAACP, which was great, because I met another sister named Courtney, who was like, big afro, she's listening to Dead Prez. I had just got introduced to Dead Prez when I was at Dickinson. So I'm like, Oh, my God, like, we are, we are meshing we are kindred. And so we do this project for NAACP. We're interviewing people about  Black History Month at Xavier? And one of the I remember one of the students said something that we're like, oh, shit, like completely changed our own trajectories, both of our trajectories. He was like \"Xavier is not a black school. Xavier is a white school for black students.\" And I was like, Oh, shit. Because really, Xavier is different from other HBCUs in the fact that most of our faculty are not black. When you go to Spelman, most of the faculty are black folks. That's not true for Xavier, most of those faculty are not black at Xavier. A good chunk of the faculty are nuns from the convent that's on the campus, right? You have PE with a nun you, got your science classes with a nun. It just wasn't just the case. He's like, this is a white school for black students. Anyway, so Courtney got an internship, that some summer, Courtnet was a sociology student, so she had to do an internship in the city. So she got an internship that summer at Critical Resistance, and was like, \"Hey, I think you'll be interested in this, you should come check it out.\" And so I went, and I never left. I went and they were like, you want to volunteer? I'm like, I absolutely do. They're like here put in some data. I'm like, bet whatever you want me to do, I will do it. And so that is the beginning of my movement journey. Was Courtney getting an internship and being like, come through sis! So yeah, I don't know you. That's not the question that you asked me. I got on all kinds of tangents just now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=2558.0,2873.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins\n\nThat is the question. That was perfect. I love it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=2873.0,2883.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nDid you have a question Dartricia? Well, I mean, there was a lot that you touched on. I want to clarify, what were the years that you were in college, particularly at Xavier,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=2883.0,2893.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton\n\nI got to Xavier in 2000. And I graduated 2004.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=2893.0,2898.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nOkay. Which politically was a significant time in U.S. politics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=2898.0,2905.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nYes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=2905.0,2906.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nRight. I wonder like, you're just now getting to your organizing work. And was it in conversation with what was happening nationally? I mean, also in New Orleans. I mean, that's like, right before Katrina, as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=2906.0,2918.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nYeah. So that. So when I found Critical Resistance, that is the summer after my sophomore year. So that's 2002. And, at this point, they are planning, they've just started in the South. At that point, Critical Resistance had had the main conference in 1998 at Berkeley, and then they had had in 2001, I think, the Critical Resistance East Conference in New York. And so in 2002, when I get there, they are planning for the CR South Conference that is going to be held in New Orleans in 2003. When I come, like I said, I'm just, I'm just doing data entry. But then they're like, that's cute, go talk about prison industrial complex at the Essence Festival. I'm like what?! So they gave us a table and all the stuff. So at this point, abolition is not a big conversation. It's not really a part of the conversation. Prison industrial complex is not even language that people really know at this time. But mass incarceration is a huge fucking deal still at this time. And so I want to say this and I want to say it with as little shade as possible. I think it's always interesting to me to hear when people mark the conversation around mass incarceration with Michelle Alexander's book, The New Jim Crow, which I think is a very important book, and people were out here shaping- she was informed by, you what I'm saying, like that book was informed by, and I think that's a really important part that people absolutely always leave out. Anyway. But mass incarceration is a huge deal at that time. And at that point, Louisiana has the highest incarceration rate, not just in the nation, but in the world. And so, that was a conversation we were inside of, at that moment. That's what I started out doing in 2002. But of course, 2000, 9/11 happened while I was at Dickinson. And that also shaped me, because Dickinson was a very white school. And I lived in the International House at Dickinson, which is where all the foreign like most of the foreign exchange students live. So we had a lot of Muslim folks in our house that were getting targeted in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. Also, my very first visit to New York, the very first time I ever been to New York was a month after 9/11. So it's also like, seeing what that was. And then of course, travel changed, you know, I'm traveling right before, you know, everything changed. So all of this is informing things. And of course, as we're building out the understanding in the program at Critical Resistance, we cannot ignore the anti-terrorists, like the Patriot Act is happening at this time. But people are just being locked up, you know, for being Muslim, essentially. And so I am involved in all of that, I also get very involved in anti-war organizing.  And this is my the first time that I clash with Xavier. I was helping to organize all these anti war protests across the city. And so I get an idea to organize an anti-war protest on campus. And I start talking to the folks in the student government, who I knew most of them from NAACP and some other, they're like, bet, let's do it! And so we get flyers made, I'm putting up flyers. The university is taking the flyers down. They initially approved the protests. But then they're like, \"Nah, Xavier is not anti-war. Xavier is pro peace and prayer.\" And I'm like, What in the entire fuck does that mean? And so that's my first clash with the university administration. But anyway, regardless, I keep doing what I'm doing. I keep organizing. And I start organizing on campuses, the first time that the father I was telling you about, the priest, my theology professor, brings me on campus to talk about the work that I'm doing, to invite students to campus, I start organizing students on campus to come. You know, Angela Davis is a founder of Critical Resistance. She comes to town to speak at Tulane. And I get to pick her up from the airport first and foremost, which was wild for 18 year old Tamika. And then she she's like, \"What are y'all up to?\" Oh, we're just stuffing envelopes for the conference. She's like \"oh, bet. Let's go stuff envelopes.\" She's like stuffing envelopes with us at the CR South like our little tiny office in the back of the United Here office.  So anyway, these are all things that are happening at the same time. The Critical Resistance South Conference happens, it is beautiful and amazing. If y'all ever get a chance to see there is a VHS  recap of the conference. It's amazing. It's beautiful. During that time, I meet a couple people one, I meet Billy Wimsatt , who is one of these trust fund kids who becomes an anarchist and starts moving their money to political causes. So I meet Billy, through the organizing for CR South.  And then I also meet folks from Planned Parenthood and so coming out of my CR internship, I go right into an internship at Planned Parenthood SE. And Planned Parenthood at that time, they are about to do the big, what was originally the March for Choice, but becomes the March for Women's Lives. That was in 2000, I think it was 2004. At this point, it might have been 2003. I don't know, all the things kind of mashed together in my mind at this point. I start to lose dates, it was 2003 2004. So this matters because when it's March for choice, I started to organize. Part of my work at Planned Parenthood at that point is to organize black folks from New Orleans and the New Orleans area to go to the march in DC. And so I'm organizing folks on campus, I'm coming on campus. This is my second clash with Xavier is me, and my professors inviting me to come on campus and talk about what we're doing to talk about my internship at Planned Parenthood. Again, my theology professor, but also professors in the African American Studies Department. I think at this point, I'm the president of African American Studies club. And so that, like, my professors are inviting me to come on campus and talk. And so I tried to bring Planned Parenthood to campus. And Xavier is like, Absolutely not. And I'm like, Well, what if we don't talk about abortion? They're like, No, because contraception. I'm like, Well, what are we don't talk about contraception. And they're like, No, Planned Parenthood is not allowed on campus. So that's my second clash with Xavier was around this. But still, I'm able to get a ton of students on on campus. I'm still involved with campus life, because I'm also involved with SGA, but only to the extent that they invited me to come help each year and plan the Black History Month activities. And so that year, we got Nikki Giovanni to come and me and some of my homegirls had done this really dope- So if you ever been to Xavier campus, there's like the the library. And then there's like a little gallery space in the, in the lobby, like you're going towards the library. And so we had, they had given us that space. And we created this really dope exhibit on the history of hip hop. And Nikki Giovanni's like \"take me to your exhibit, I want to see your exhibit.\" So after she speaks, we get to take her to our exhibit, and we're talking to her and I'm telling her also about all the other work that we're doing in the city. And I'm like, \"Oh my god!\" Anyway, that's an aside, but it was very important for me, milestone for me and my life.  Oh, yeah. So Planned Parenthood. I am doing this organizing with Planned Parenthood. I am organizing folks, we go to the March. So first, like I said, it was March for Choice. And then the repro, RJ folks Loretta Ross was like, this ain't it? This framing is very not inclusive. It don't mean nothing to women of color. Our fight is not just about choice, our fight is about our lives. And so that's when the framing changed to March for Women's Lives. And it took on like RJ folks gave more were for framing it more, that was really my introduction to reproductive justice. At this time, I'm also like, to my to my internship meeting folks from Feminist Majority Foundation. I don't know what Feminist Majority Foundation, what they're doing these days. But back then they used to have all these college chapters, that they used to do feminist organizing on their colleges. And so at this time, I'm meeting Herinisa, who was from New Orleans, but went to Spelman. And then at that point, worked at Feminist Majority, and was trying to come back and build some chapters in New Orleans. And so she met so I met her through my internship at Planned Parenthood. And she's also like, \"they're looking for people to speak, you should speak.\" And so at that point, I am set to speak at this march in DC. I don't know nothing about speaking at shit at this point. Right. I had done like one keynote at in Greenville, South Carolina, about the prison industrial complex. So I'm set to speak at this thing. And then in the way that Planned Parenthood, you know, operates, the stage becomes about celebrities. So I get bumped for celebrity speakers, but I'm like, whatever, I still gotta go. It's great. So the march happens, I go, it's amazing. It's my first big national march I've ever been to really like, transformative for me. And we drove them a bus, mostly black folks that we had organized on this on these buses to go from New Orleans to DC.  And then my last clash with Xavier happens because I come back and I'm in conversation with Herinisa I'm like, well we I know we won't be able to form an official affiliate, because of the abortion access stuff at Xavier. They won't go for that. But I find an advisor, a faculty advisor, a black woman in the counseling department to help me start a black feminism organization on campus. And so we got like a crew of folks. Like we're organizing, we have our first event, which is a screening and discussion of Black is, Black Ain't by Marlon Riggs. So that's like our first event, we had this discussion. It's really great. So we start organizing like discussions around black feminism on campus. And then I am at an event for Critical Resistance. Because at this point I'm volunteering, I had a number of different roles at Critical Resistance. After my internship, I volunteered. And then the person who was the staff person, they were transitioning between staff people, and I was the staff person for like, a month before- I don't know if y'all know Kenyon Farrow. If you don't know Kenyon, you should learn about Kenyon. Kenyon is one of the folks responsible for a lot of the framing around how hate crimes negatively impact black folks and like the people who they're supposed to protect. Kenyon is fucking brilliant. But anyway, so Kenyon was coming in, and I was a staff person in between, so I have a number of different roles at Critical Resistance over the years. But at this point, I'm just a volunteer. But I am at a Critical Resistance event when I get a call from Herinisa that's like, \"Yo, where are you? I am at Xavier,\" and I'm like what you doing at Xaiver. She's like \"they're trying to expel you.\" Because they have a staff person whose job it is to Google Xavier's name, and Feminist Majority Foundation have put on their website, not that we had an FMLA, which is the their affiliate, we didn't have one of those. But we had a black feminist organization that I had asked him to put on the website so that more people could be able to find us. But because we're on the website, they were like, \"this is a violation.\" They tried to fire our advisor and expel me from the school. She was like, \"Don't worry about it, I'm in here, we're working through it, we're gonna figure it out, you're not gonna get expelled.\" And so they don't end up expelling me. They do end up telling us we have to disband in our organization. If we use any Xavier email accounts or anything to talk about it, then I will get expelled. Our advisor gets put on like some kind of probationary situation, you get some kind of punishment. But it was like a very devastating, like, literally, when I tell you at this point, this is the this is the summer of 2004. So technically, I should have already graduated, I would have graduated in the fall, but they didn't accept one of my credits from Dickinson so I had to do an additional course in the summer. I'm like, how you got to try expel me, I got one course left.  So, come back to meeting Billy Wimsatt and being in conversation with national stuff. We're going into the 2004 elections. I had met Billy and was doing my internship at Planned Parenthood, Billy had started an organization called The League of Pissed Off Voters. He was funding the starting of this organization. And so one of the people who was involved, who was a volunteer at Planned Parenthood was another woman named Shawna And Shawna was involved with the League of Pissed Off voters stuff and was like, \"Billy told me, I need to meet you. And here you are at this meeting. Let's talk.\" So we started talking and she's like, I want to bring you to this Wellstone training in Atlanta at Georgia Tech. Wellstone, at that time was sort of new. Paul Wellstone had not long died, and his wife had not long died in that plane crash. So they started the foundation in his honor to train up all these folks on electoral politics. And so I went to the Wellstone training. And Shawna was like, \"we should like I'm doing League of Pissed Off voters here in New Orleans. You should come join us.\" So I started doing stuff around the 2004 elections. This is my entree into voter organizing, and I'm doing League of Pissed Off voters stuff.  Actually now that I'm clarifying myself, when I got the call from Herinisa I might have been at a CR thing, or I might have been in Florida for the league stuff. I can't remember. But regardless, though, right after my senior year, right before that summer, they're organizing the national hip hop- the first national Hip Hop convention in Newark. And they're like, hey, Shawna's gonna go on this tour of Florida to talk about the book. We actually want more crews to come from Florida to the hip hop convention. Can you go with Shawna on a tour and organize Floridians to come to the convention. We go to 10 cities in a week. And we're driving around Florida, hitting all these cities going to all these events and talking to all these Floridians and bringing them up to the convention and talking about the book. We end up - random, random anecdote: we end up in Miami at some gallery thing. My first time ever in Miami, I end up in the dang Miami Herald because they are doing a story on this gallery event opening and they interview me. Now when I tell you how this work back in the day. Now,people got money. Back then, organizers didn't have money like this, right? So we just used to sleep on people's couches. And so basically, they were like, \"We got this. We got people in these cities in Florida. They're willing to put you up and bring you to whatever events they got going on.\" So that's how we did the tour of Florida. The guy in Miami just happened to know people and had us at this gallery thing that is DJ'ed by Biz Markie and hosted by Dougie Fresh. It's like a big deal. We are completely not dressed for the occasion because we were sleeping on floors and cotton mattresses and shit. But we managed to somehow get the book in Dougie Fresh's hand. And he's like, \"what y'all talking about. What is it? Oh, shit like!\" He's reading the information about the Convention on the microphone. And he's like, \"Yo, this dope! Tell 'em what y'all doing.\" And like it's like a wild thing. Because Dougie Fresh is actually performing at the convention. So he gets very excited about us being there and promoting so anyway, random anecdote.  We spent that week, I go back, I finish my courses. Well, before I finish my courses, actually we go [to the] convention. So I head to Newark for the convention. It's where I meet my husband actually, coincidentally. Where I met my husband at this convention standing outside randomly after the Dougie Fresh sleepwear concert. And he's there at that time because he was a youth organizer and an artist and so he was there with AFSC. (My daughter she's like she's listening to the whole story very excited.) But he's there, he's the host of an arts activism program and an open mic with AFSC in Boston. And so he's there doing that and we just happen to like meet and we've been together ever since the summer of 2004 - June 19 2004. Earlier that day is also the day I find out that I have gotten a staff position at Critical Resistance because now I'm about to graduate. So all these things happened the same day. So all that so convention happens is amazing, the very first one. And then we go into the fall elections happening in the fall we're doing for the league we're doing like pancakes and politics and all these like different kinds of gatherings to talk to people about the elections. We're going to we're hitting like, somehow we get involved when you remember MTV hit Rock the Vote. Yes, somehow we get connected the right to vote so right so they get a message to all the concerts. So like a registered voters who said, I don't know like I might interest while like I'm like, I don't I don't know I'm picking back on. I'm like this was a lot going on in this time. So I'm doing all the like Rock the Vote stuff or the voter stuff. And then I transitioned into my job at CR where we're actually because I have been doing repro stuff CR has been had been working with at that point. critical systems was fiscally sponsored by another organization that was like California, it was like a it was for, for women prisoners in California. I can't remember what the name of the organization was right now. But there were a number of different different abolitionists organizations that were fiscally sponsored by them. And Justice now was one of our sister organizations and justice now Of course had been, had been doing work around shackling. And so they brought me to Hampshire, to go to the Melanie, the newly new leadership networking initiatives. My very first time at the at the clip conference, the there repro conference, I was there to speak on a panel with Cynthia about women in prison, and and shackling and Rico stuff. And so that was like, you know, I was doing that work. And that was 2004 2005. And then, of course, 1005, Katrina hits. And I, I leave, and I come back in October. My neighborhood had eight feet of water. I live on Palmyra, by Palmyra, between broad and soft, Jeff Davis. And so we got a feed of water, but my house is like on stilts. And so the water kind of starts underneath it used to be like a double shot and on top and bottom, but they had gutted the bottom. And so it was just a top so I lived in a top. So thankfully, we didn't get any water. But our neighbors did get a lot of water and I neighbors across the street, they have small children, they had to like be rescued from their upper level. But um, so Katrina happens. I am doing prison organizing at this time jail, prison and jail organism car. And so I evacuate depend on my city. But we start getting calls almost immediately from people whose loved ones are in opp on his parish prison. And they don't know what is happening. And so CR alongside the folks at safe streets and juvenile justice project started organizing a hotline for folks to try to help them find their loved one. So we're like immediately, immediately organizing, immediately organizing, which was very hard, because we're all trying to like we're watching the news with everybody else trying to figure out what's going to happen. And then one of my good friends and elders at their Francoise, who has since passed away. Her daughter is also in was also in Orleans Parish prison. And so anyway, so when we go back, when I go back to New Orleans for the first time in October, it also goes back to the first time and they film it. So if you ever can get your hands on, as a film called, I won't dwell on that living. So I actually hunt who's done, who does primarily documentaries about the prison system, he's a CR member, and a good, just a good, good spirit. So he films it, because I commend it. So there is a video footage of me going into my house for the first time. After the storm, you're entering New Orleans for the first time after the storm. But then we do a press conference about because this at this point, CR has launched a campaign for amnesty for the prisoners who were in opp at the time of the storm, because and this is when we're getting the first kind of information about what had happened to folks in the prison and how they had been abandoned. And wash it. Yeah, so we did this press conference. And then we find out after the press conference that the sheriff is in the building because we do a press conference on this like right in front of the jail and we hear that he's in the building. So we're like bet. So we race around the back. And this man literally dipped out of the back running from us. So we hold another press conference and the back of the prison because we're literally like showing the press and showing the document and like the foot the filmmakers where the like waterline is on the jail and all that kind of goes 10 feet at the jail and so but he literally like you literally you can like his car we see him like rush off to try to escape being able to like have a conversation with us it was wild shit. And let me tell you how much of a different time this was. This was right after Kanye had got on the new on that on that telethon it was like George Bush does not care about black people. So there's several of us that have Kanye was right T shirts tonight as well. But, but yeah, so anyway, I stay in New Orleans for a while. Well, I actually have to leave because I can't stay in my house and my neighborhoods under curfew. When I return to New Orleans I also cannot say my house because my landlord has rented out my space to a bunch of contractors with my furniture. So like people are living on my furniture um So I'm staying in the French Quarter. And this actually, you know how to get the slave quarters behind the house is a bit almost like what I'm saying. So my slave quarters in a French Quarter. And that is, so I'm there. I'm also very depressed. And so I'm like leave my husband as my who's my partner at the time. We had moved, he moved, moved him to New Orleans at one point. And then we got all of our stuff, we got as much of our stuff as was salvageable and move it to north to Atlanta. I mean, say to Atlanta to the apartment, we first moved into it and Atlanta. And yeah, and so I'm doing that during the MST work going back and forth doing stuff around the environmental impacts of the storm. And very, and both very depressed and also very sick. And so finally, just I'm like, I actually have to leave I cannot say I cannot I cannot read my faces all the time. Later, I find out that the likely the environmental impact of Katrina and the stress, the trauma response has triggered sjogrens syndrome. So I have Shokan syndrome and lupus. But I did not know that at the time. Why I was constantly not unwell. But I got I didn't get diagnosed until 2008. You get will use 120 1220 1220 12 I before I got I worked for I had her. So but yes, so I'm also moved to Atlanta. And I'm going through a whole bunch of stuff. So tell me if I need a break. I'm sorry, I just keep talking. Okay. That most of that I moved to Atlanta, but I had already been organizing in Atlanta because my role at CRC was as a Southern Regional Coordinator. And so I had managed I had that New Orleans chapter, but I also had the Atlanta chapter. And I had two chapters in Florida, Gainesville, and Tampa, St. Pete. And so I would drive so when I was in my role, I was driving around and around and around the region supporting all of these chapters, so already had like, you know, some connections, and folks, some folks in in Atlanta and of course, a lot of a lot of you know, people definitely want this I came to Atlanta. So. So I'm in Atlanta. And I'm like, I'm not doing anything I don't want to do organ I don't want to organize the more I'm over it. But then the US Social Forum happens in 2007, summer 2007, because I moved to I moved to New Orleans, officially, officially officially in the summer of 2006. And then I started grad school, and I'm like, I'm just gonna go to grad school. I'm not gonna do any organism, which of course was totally, totally in Atlanta. So I started at Georgia State. And sociology, I think I'm just gonna do that. I'm not gonna do anything in any organizing minute Social Forum happens. And of course, I'm like, well, all my people are here. I have to go see them. So I go to the Social Forum. Everybody's like, oh my god, we haven't seen you forever. Oh, my God, you have a child. Where did this child come to Imani? My oldest was six weeks old actually at the first everyone that he was a big child so we were like, Oh my God, how old is this baby and I'm like, he's only six weeks like am I like six months old. But um, but so that was my kind of read on like reentry into organizing. And that happened in two ways. One CR critical this was was about to have the next year was about to have its 10 year anniversary of the first conference and so there are people organizing to get folks from Atlanta so I got involved in the planning for a CR 10 And then also got involved spark. At that point. So ridiculous was now was at that point was run by Mia Mingus and Paris, Hatcher. And they were doing stuff on shackling. And they were like, Hey, you ought to come. I had I had previously spoken when I was still ser, I come to town and has spoken at something about shackling. And that's how I met Mia. And so then I started getting involved with Spark. So that was sort of my reentry. And have met had re met not met for the first time I remained Kara Paige who found a kindred so the hidden justice collective, um, who I had met actually when I lived in New Orleans when I was still in undergrad, and she had come in as a part of insight had done a tour cause she was the alcoholic she's so dope but that's not the right one is she something is escaping me right now. But Carol was a bunch of artists were performing about issues that were at the intersection of of feminism and Pac and so car hosted They in, hosted the event in New Orleans. And so I was a part of the organizing for that event. And Kara was there was a poet and an installation artist. So that was the first time I met her. And then we met at a social forum. And actually, no, before the Social Forum in Atlanta, there was a se Social Forum in Durham. This in 2006, before I actually left critical resistance, and so I was there at that I was at the social episodic Social Forum in dorm and that's actually where I, where I got introduced to kindred was at the southeast social forum because they had done some altar space and some healing space at indurham. But when I met ran it, but but I didn't see carat there. I saw I ran into Cara on a corner, on a street corner at the Social Forum. And that's when she was like, Yeah, I'm doing this thing. And I'm like that, that sounds like, you know, we should link up. And so we kept kind of connecting, but we didn't start working together again. Anyway. That's bringing me up to to Atlanta. I said a whole bunch of stuff. So I will pause.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=2918.0,4864.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nYou don't ever have to pause. But yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=4864.0,4876.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nOkay, yeah, that was a good bit. I do think a break will be helpful right now, so that I can digest everything you just said. Give me some water. So can we take maybe like a three? Well, let's say four minute break so that we can come back at 1240?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=4876.0,4891.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nPerfect. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=4891.0,4897.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nso you started to talk about, you know, going into college with the intention of going into what major bio pre med, reproductive endocrinology, and then you talk about being in Atlanta, and you have a child. So I want to hear about your if you're comfortable talking about it, your experience having your first child and I'm curious to have that impacted your work as an RJ organizer and birth Parker? Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=4897.0,4932.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nSo I will say that I definitely came out of college and not wanting to go not wanting to be a doctor anymore. But largely because of the kind of bureaucracies around med schools and all that jazz. And so definitely felt like went into into grad school, like, because I considered going to grad school for for public health, but definitely wanted to think about what my contribution might be in that space. It was still kind of really thinking about it. I felt like the organizing work that I was doing, felt still aligned. So I my first week of grad school, I had not long moved to Atlanta. I was like, deeply in pain. And I was like, Oh, I gotta go to the hospital. And so only with only your hospital I was really very familiar with it was great, because I was right next to Georgia State. And so we went to Grady spent 17 hours on our hospital. Yep. Went to the ER, it was ridiculous. Once the ER waited for hours and hours, it was it was all in all, a not positive experience. They did multiple vaginal exams, because of course, it's a teaching hospital. And so there's like all these people like you know, milli in and out of the rooms, I felt very out of control of my body. Like they did a ton of ultrasounds like they were moving me from place to place and each place would do a vaginal exam, each placement. So it was like, very. But then when I got to the to the Women's Center, it wasn't better, like literally at that point, because I had been in the hospital for so long. My husband who were still married at the time, had to leave and go to work. You know, we hadn't we had not long been in Atlanta, so we weren't very well established. I had just left my job or credit resistance. So I didn't have health insurance. So I was uninsured. I didn't have a job at that time. So I was so he was primarily primary income. And he didn't he wasn't making very much. And so they were looking at so they're seeing me as like uninsured alone, young, unemployed. And they treated me just like that's what they saw. And it was black women and I was very much like what on earth is happening. Um, and it was one of those moments where like, you try to grasp or whatever privilege you can muster to like, pull into that space to like feel some sense of dignity. So like, I've asked him questions to assert that like, I'm college educated, like, I'm saying I'm trying to like, pull in something but it was very, very like, stressful and And so that's how I found out I was pregnant was in the hospital because I was having very bad cramps and bleeding. And apparently I had a cyst that I had ovarian cysts that have burst, and that was what was causing the pain. But then I also found out at the time I was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=4932.0,5122.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\npregnant. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=5122.0,5127.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nit was also one of those things where like, they told me, they told me that I was pregnant in the hallway of the ER, because they didn't have any rooms have booked me. And I didn't have my and my partner was there and he was like, super excited. And I'm like, a deer in headlights. Like, what are you saying right now? I don't want to do I want to have a child? I don't know, I want to have a child like this is what's happening. And so um, yeah, it was just overall a very overwhelming experience. It was literally my first week of grad school. And I was like, I don't know, I had just gotten to Atlanta. Like I do not know what is happening. But I decided to move forward with the pregnancy. But I was going and doing my prenatals at Grady, which was not great. One of my friends who was actually in my study abroad program with me across the borders with me, was from Atlanta, but we had moved back to Atlanta. She graduated from Xavier moved back to Atlanta, and she was a nurse. And she had had her child the year before at Emory, Midtown, they had a midwifery center. But the midwifery said she was insured. And I was able to go down to Planned Parenthood and get pregnancy, Medicaid, which for a long time, I was telling all of my clients when I go to Planned Parenthood, have them, fill it out for you. Because it's like that, if you could try to do it yourself, which I do to the Medicaid office, it's a much longer Planned Parenthood will make it happen so quickly. So if they were a lifesaver, because they were like this is what you do that. But the midwifery so the way that the Medicaid is set up, I'm sure I'm I know this already. But it's like you pick a provider, you have Medicaid, but you have to pick a particular out of three providers. You don't know which provider is better than the other. So you just pick what you just picking randomly. So I just randomly picked one of the providers, but it just so happened in the midwifery Center did not accept the provider that I had picked for my Medicaid. So I couldn't use them. But but my the same friend was like, okay, look, I don't know what you think about this. But there is a homebirth midwife that I met to my friends, I call her when I need thing. I didn't use her, but I call her when I need things for my babies. And you know, now that they're here, and now that she's here, I'm gonna give you her number you check her out. And so I was like, bet I'm gonna try it because I don't want to have my baby Grady. And so I, um, I called her she came over, she looked at my number. She's like, where are you from? I'm like, I'm from Beaufort, South Carolina. She's like, I'm from Beaver, South Carolina. It's just like, this whole like thing that happened. That was very serendipitous. And so I decided to have to have a home birth. And so So yeah, it was like I did my whole first year at at Georgia State and then had my final exams on my last final exam on like Wednesday. And then Sunday, I went into labor. And I was like, you're such an obedient child. I was like, Don't and you can't like wait till I finish these finals. Wait till I finish the spot. And then I wasn't he got away from my mom and come with my mom because I call my mom like mom. My mom was already planning on coming on that Sunday. He wasn't due until I think the 15th. But this was a seventh. And so my mom was my mom came. And she got there just in time. And we had had him at home and a birthing pool and the room we have set up for him. And it was a beautiful experience. It was like he came out with his hand next to his face like this. Very like so he was stuck for a minute, but it was all good. Like all the things I want to think that remember the most about my birth was just that. I was in a room by myself like I was just in a room. I had I had been laboring and laboring and then my water wouldn't break. I was fully fully that I have never had you know how I'm in movies like The the marker for everybody having their babies or their water break. I have never had experienced my water breaking. It's never been a thing that's happened for me. My daughter was born in her call. So I've never had that happen. So when my son he was I was fully fully dilated, but my water one breaks so she was like listen, I'm gonna try this because that because you I was like you got to do something. This is not I cannot keep doing this. Like this is what we're gonna do. I'm gonna break your back waters and so she brought them back a lot and then I had like, contractions for us. And then I was like, Oh, I'm tired. And I went and took a nap. Now, you know, this is not how it happens in a hospital, like in a hospital like, Okay, what is broken? I just had a baby. I was broke. And I went to sleep for about 30 minutes. Like it had to have been at least 30 minutes. And then I was and I woke up and was like, Oh, I gotta vomit. And then the midwives are like, Oh, she's in transition from another room. I can hear them. Oh, she's in transition. They didn't check anything. They didn't move. They were just like, she's fine. She's in transition, she'll let us know when she's ready. I went, and I went, I vomited. And I was like, Oh, I gotta push it. Like, let's get in the water. Come on. It's like, I know what it and and, you know, we pushed, though pushing, like I said, push him with a little bit longer because he was stuck like this for a second. So they were like, I don't know, like, why is he not coming down, he's like, I'm gonna, let's check. So she's like, Oh, his hands right there. So she just looked and put his hand out. My husband was in a pool with me, my mom was standing on the side. And it was like, we were in the dark. And it was lovely. And we stay in the pool for a second and I got up and sat on the bed and and then the placenta was born. And we kept some attached to the placenta and sort of stopped bleeding. And they were, you know, whole thing. And then I stayed at home. And I was like, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me. Now, my mic, I had two cousins that were pregnant the same time as me. We had kids in March. Yeah. March, May, August. And so they and they had very, very different birthing experiences and ideas and very different pregnancy experience than I did. Like, literally during my pregnancy, I was we will, my midwife will come on to the house, we'd be telling me like, two hours later, we're like, em lunch, like, just chilling, like, you know, building relationship with her daughter would be over and be crawled. And I'd be like, let me change the baby like that. You know, it was that kind of vibe that her daughter was literally at my birth, calling around my birth. And so it was very peaceful, very different. And I was like, Oh, this is a very different experience. This is really transformative and really empowering. I feel like a different person that I was when I was at Grady that day, I found out I was pregnant, like I feel like a different person because of this experience. And so it apps, we did change my trajectory. I am and so I was like only a doula at first. And so the midwives that trained me, I mean, the midwives that, that attending my birth, train me for initially as a doula, I didn't do tutorial trainings, I did theirs, which was very robust, in terms of all the things about birth, like it was many months long, we learned how to palpate a belly, which you don't normally do and do the trainings that we learned all these like specifics, it was very much about birth, and how to support a person in birth as opposed to how to manage a birth, which was sort of the the lens that they they trained in as midwives, and doulas is, is a quantum midwifery framework. And that's the lens I trained in both as a doula and a midwife through the school program at the school called mama trauma, and trauma. And so, the Madrona has, like the midwife there, her framework is that she developed is called concept midwifery. And it's really about like, you know, the process of birth as like, yes, the stages of birth, but also like that there's emotional stuff happening, and there's spiritual stuff happening. And like this part of the transition is the part where like you are, you are in a space where you're, you can call upon the mothers in your lineage, you can call upon the midwives in your lineage you can call upon, and you can, and they walk you through this veil, from into motherhood. And so that's sort of the framework that I was trained in as a as a as a doula and so it was very So yeah, that it definitely shaped shaped my my work and what I want what I had decided to do from there actually was I tried to start a nonprofit that was that was really about how we can bring a black feminist woman this lens into thinking about birth work as not just a practice of a practice of doing something you do one on one, but also something that we could do collectively as as birthright as an opportunity to transform black women and by extension, transform their communities. And so I have written up all the stuff I apply for everyone, I have a nightmare. I could look wrong, Echoing Green, Echoing Green Fellowship, which has not yet and then was like, fuck it, I just, you know, set it set the nonprofit on myself. A whole bunch of drama with the scammy scammy grant writer that led to that not and not being anything that happened. But what it did do was bring me closer together with Kara. And because I was like, let's do a thing. And so were they It led to me being one, her bringing me on to help organize healers and health practitioners from the South to come to the Social Forum in Detroit, the second Social Forum as a part of kindred. And that also with that she and I started to build out a program, our project called black woman birthing resistance. And and then also I stepped in as CO coordinator. So she and I started to began to co coordinate Kyndra together and grew black members and resistance as a part of kindred. He's a black black woman birthing resistance, that concept was around to look at, to kind of take this healing justice framework and apply it to this broader thing around birthing, which is to say that black midwives and birth workers have held a particular role in the resistance and have held a particular role in the resistance and resilience of black people. And so when we think so part of the healing justice framework, as Kindred, as kindred conceptualizes, that is that there is one is that there is collective trauma, that people have to have been transformed collectively. And so so when we're thinking about trauma, in particular trauma that is born of oppression, that we have to consider that and, and consider how we try to collectively transform it, in order to, as we are thinking about our strategies for how to transform society broadly, and that politicized healers and health practitioners have played a key role in that transformation. And so we're thinking about black birth workers as a part of that lineage. And so we started to research the history of black birthing in the country. And and the key the key role that black midwives and healers held in, in black birth health, and like how we think about resistance, and resilience, and so that black folks who came to the shore, and were it to the shores and having to burn in and, you know, really traumatic circumstances, and that, if not for the work of black midwives, how would we have survived, right? But also, so that, that in terms of the resilience practice, the resiliency of black folks, but also that black midwives, were the ones that were like, hey, look, I'm gonna get you this kind of work, because I see you don't want to have no more babies, you know what I'm saying? So that black midwives are constantly a part of the resistance, and there is a sense of black people from time to time we set foot on the shores. And so we built we were building out, we built out it, we actually, now we're building we built out a curriculum, that, that looked at that, but also initially, we were documenting our own journeys, my journey to midwifery and her journey towards birthing as a queer black woman, you know, oh, in the in the, what in the doctor's will say, geriatric age, kind of like phase of her life. And of course, our journeys did not go the way that we thought they were gonna go. So we didn't necessarily, you know, within that part, we kind of dropped off over time. But the building out of the framework we continue to do, and we get to you to talk about and go places, I'm talking about it first. Initially, it was sort of us presenting this framework to folks and then it sort of transformed to us using the framework to help organizations to help formations conceptualize how they wanted to do their work. So for instance, we presented we did a series with a retreat with the New York Department of Public Health. They had they were trying to think better about their about their practices in terms of relating to black and brown folks and birth. And so they brought us in to facilitate both sort of a presenting of our framework. But when we're thinking about the curriculum, we're like, we don't just want this to be like us talking to you. We want it to be a thing that actually informed strategy. And so they were able to build out some strategies and ways to shift their perspectives and their approaches to black folks and birthing, utilizing a framework and we did the same. A few before the pandemic, all those pre pandemic of course, there was a group of Georgia midwives, black children, midwives who are trying to and are still working to build out to build towards a community midwifery bill to pass a community midwifery bill here in the state. And so we utilize Karen, I facilitated the same a similar thing that we did with the US Department of Health. So utilizing the curriculum to help them think about their approaches to this bill, what needs to be You know, who they need to organize with who they need to bring into the fold, etc, etc. So, yeah, that's black member fingers. Right now, it's sort of been on hold, because one, you know, Karen moves to New York and became the director of Angela projects and is now you know, doing all the things has the Healing Justice lineages book coming out in the spring, so it's doing all the all the things and then, you know, basically part of what part of really what happened was that we were talking doing work around Healing Justice at a point when there was no money to to work around feeling justice, and we had to live. We had to pay bills and so we had to so we had to both step away from Kindred at that time. Like I said, Cara got the job of Alp. I took a job at projects house. And then also, I got my diagnosis, my my shoguns, lupus diagnoses, and so I had to step back from some things to figure that out, and then got pregnant. Like shortly after, I was like, Oh, I gotta go ahead as baby. So yeah, yes with you. So, so yeah, so the project kind of, you know, well, as we were envisioning it kind of stalled as as I work with as we stepped away from Kindred, we come back to it from time to time, I guess the Department of Public Health thing was later the thing will work with the judgment, whereas this later, so we come back to it when we call back to it, sort of, but, but yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=5127.0,6102.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nYeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. That Enmore which I love it. So talked about, you know, coming into your doula training, and now your midwife practice, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=6102.0,6117.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton \n\nYes, which has been a long a long journey. Um, so when I was when I left kindred, and when I was at politics out, I started Midwifery, we would midwifery school at the Madrona and did a year long program. And, but that was also the year that I that I got sick, and then got diagnosed with sjogrens and lupus. And then so when I got my sjogrens diagnosis, one of the first things that they you know, they tell you is it will be hard for you to have children, when I got my lupus diagnosis, it will be hard for you to have children, you will have a hard time having children. And then I found I was pregnant, like a week after we got to. And so, the next so that next year was the year that I was the 2013 was the year that I went into for school. And so I did midwifery school, my entire program pregnant, and then had her before I finished midwifery school. It was also a very trying work year, it was a lot going on, at my job at that time. So much so that my midwife was like, You got to tell them that you are taking two weeks off, or else you're going to end up on bed rest for the end of your pregnancy. So it was a lot going on, it's both in terms of like all the work that we were doing, but also in terms of like internal turmoil inside of the organization. And so, yeah, all that was happening when I was trying to do midwifery school, I finished the program, um, and then I was supposed to my goals and I left my job you know, on all on the face of it to you know, to raise my kid and finish midwifery work apprenticeship, but law in large part because, you know, what was happening inside the organization was was was too much and it was not what I wanted to be in. But yeah, so I went to do my intention was to, to apprentice. And that was 2014 and it is 2020 So when I have not finished that apprenticeship, largely because I had two kids and I had to you know, make money and, and also my midwife had you know, a lot of things that happened she she's moved kind of back and forth between Atlanta and in South Carolina where we're from. So she had both of her pictures off with her parents and that time she's had she's had a new kid in that time so like I think her she also lost her partner had also died in that time. So like a lot of things that had happened between 2014 and now and so much has shifted in my life and so I'm sort of I still kind of hold on to like a move for your princess because whenever she calls me into these when it comes to a birth, I'm coming I am at that burst and also Oh, I don't really know where you know where that is going to be in my life at this point, you know. And I will say I don't attend births as much as I used to. I used to do it, I used to still do a lot of hospital births. I don't do that as much, because hospital births got to be very stressful for me, it got to be very trying for me, and I started to feel like I wasn't having I wasn't having the impact that I wanted to have. That's really what would it got down to? I had one of one of my very last clients had a midwife, a hospital based midwife. And this is when I really was like the politics of the hospital are very misaligned with what I'm trying to with what I'm trying to do. And I don't know that this is effective. For me for my life or my life's work, you know, not in general, I think people should still get doulas I think doulas still still important, but I couldn't my spirit couldn't take it. I had I had a client, she ended up having a C section, you know, which is what it is. But she was home after her C section. And I went and stopped by randomly, you know, normally, my Doula care stops. You know, I have I'll do one visit once you get home. And then that's the end of my, my, you know, my tear. But I just randomly it was like, let me stop by and go check on them. And I went by and she was like, Yeah, you know, she's just telling me things. I'm listening to her. And I'm like, Oh, you talk to you, your midwife. So yeah, you know, I talked to her, she said, you know, whatever. And I'm like, let's do a thing. Let's take your blood pressure. And so your blood pressure, and it was high, it was like, ridiculously high. And so I'm like, call your midwife. And so she calls her midwives, the midwife was like, Oh, just let's lay on your other side for a while and see what happens. And so I'm like, Okay, we'll try that. And so she lays on the on the side for like, 30 minutes, or however long they told her and I'm like, I'm just gonna stay here. Why do you do this? And so she does that. And her blood pressure increases. And I'm like, fam, we got to go to the hospital. And so we get her to the hospital. And they're like, Oh, my God, her blood pressure was almost 200 over, I don't remember, like 131 40 it was absurd. And they literally were like, if you had not gotten here, you would have had a stroke. Her blood pressure was so incredibly high. And her midwife she had spoken to her midwife. I was sitting next to her when she had spoken to her midwife more than once. And they were unconcerned. And I had to be like, pull out Sure, I did not come prepared to do any. Like, if I if it's a homebirth, I am in my midwifery apprentice mode. I am in midwife, midwife assistance mode, so I can prepare to take blood pressure. At hospital birth, that's not the role that I play. So I did not prepare for any of that. But she was talking and I was like, it sounds like your blood pressure is really high. Let's let's just check it. I didn't say that. That's what I'm thinking. But I'm like, let's just take your blood pressure real quick. And I am like, I am concerned. Let's go to the hospital. And she got there. Just like literally she was above 190. Like it was absurd how high her blood pressure was, and they were like you have postpartum preeclampsia. We're so glad you got here when you did. And her midwife did not talk it at all. She's telling. She's telling her these symptoms, like she's talking to her. She's telling and because she she didn't know what to look for. But as she's talking to me, all these things are equaling up to high blood pressure to me. And so I'm telling her tell you about like all the symptoms, because when she when you talk to her before you told her this thing, but you didn't answer it. So this is a terror, all the things and the midwife is just like laying on your other side. And so it was it was really at that point, I was like, I can't, I can't, I cannot. Because even when you have a midwife and a hospital, there are still a hospital midwife. They still have too many other clients to give you the attention and the care that you need. And being a doula I would not have even caught it normally, because I would not have been here. It just so happens that I was around I was not far from where you live, and I stopped by","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=6117.0,6566.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\notherwise you would have had a stroke.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=6566.0,6570.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton \n\nAnd so I just I was like this is ineffective, honestly, because it's not actually changing. It's not actually changing the way they operate in this in the hospital system. So that was the last that was my last client. He's still you know, she's still good. I just I spoke to her yesterday she's a very good friend of mine. But literally, and I don't say it like I don't say it's a her like yo, your midwife was trash and you could fucking die like I'm never I'm never gonna say that to her but like In my mind, I'm like, yo, this was terrible. Like this was like she could have died. Because her midwives did not catch that her blood pressure was incredibly high. So yeah, so I don't, I don't, I don't practice, I don't really have tambours anymore when I do a temporary stay at home births. And generally or and or if they're hospital births, they are for people who are related to me. So my brother has three kids, I've been to all three of his work because youngest was born in July, and she, she had a home birth. And so I was the midwife assistant for her home birth. So whenever she is like, you don't even know me like that. I'm like, ma'am, I had been all up in your vaginal area, to absolutely know you better than most. So, that's really that's kind of where my practice is right now. It's also it was also very hard, you know, to, because at that time, my daughter was so young, and she was still nursing. And, you know, it was also very, very hard. But yeah, it was very draining, and very disheartening. And it got to a point was very disheartening to be especially I think, there are a couple of instances, I don't know if there's, anyway, inside of birth work, right, where there's like, folks who are very business oriented, they're like, this is my job, this is my career, you know, and then there's me folks like me, who are like, I had a call my friend, she was like, Girl, what are you charging for your, for your client? And we tried to our clients, and I'm like, oh, sliding scale, like up to like, 600. And she was like, all these people out here charging $2,000 Worth, we are doing this wrong. I was like, Well, I guess it depends on your clientele, right? There's different it's a different world like now that like being a doula is much more, much more common. So it's literally folks who have like, celebrity doula in their bios, and I'm like, Oh, interesting that like, this was a different approach. And so you become, I think there's a different level of like investment in each one of your clients. Because I was literally like I would have when I had seen clients, I'm like, yo, this is so exhausting, because I'm taking you to defects. So my thing kitcher to get your you know, your wig set up, because you don't have a right and your baby daddy's also a teenager and you know, I'm saying like that, like I'm having to like art, like have conversations with your mama. Because she's like, just get the epidural just have just by you breastfeeding that baby, like I'm having to negotiate because you are 16 and your mom's a grown woman and you don't want to get like yellow. So like, there's a different level of this when you know, depending on what your approach to your practices, and because and that's also why I only ever do like word of mouth. And why I always had a job. My job's always new, like ultimately gotta Burke's is gonna be out today. But like, I always had to have a job because I I knew that being a doula could not be my primary source of income, or I would, for me, I wouldn't be able to do it in the way that I wanted to, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=6570.0,6779.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nRight. And you mentioned, you know, when you had your first child, that the other people in your family, you had traditional hospital births, so that it sounds like down the line, your brother and his family started to have homework. So I'm just wondering if that change, like a certain attitude or culture within your family were was home birth, and having doulas as part of your bread process, like normal back home?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=6779.0,6802.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nAbsolutely not. But my grandma was really excited. My grandma was like, I'm having my first babies at home. But people were absolutely so and my family. I am definitely very much the crunchy granola, like break the mold activist in my family, like the rest of people, my family are not like that. And so, you know, very, like they're always like, well, you know, you know, some you're gonna do some different, you know, she gonna be different. And so, I have, I have had to like, initially defend all of the choices that I have made along the road, you know, homework, going natural, you know, my hair like home like being vegetarian homebirth. Breastfeeding, especially breastfeeding for the extended time that we did because all my kids both my kids breastfed until at least breastfed past two. So breastfeeding for that length of time and because nobody else in my family breastfed either and then, you know, having having saying I was gonna have a natural birth period, but especially having an at home. Homeschooling like all those things, I've had to like, defend initially, and then people have come around, you know, over time, especially as all of those things become more mainstream. But you know, my oldest is 15 and a half and Black was we're just not talking like 15 years ago who we're not talking about homers in a way that they are now. So I was very, very crunchy, crunchy granola then. But my uncle was like, what you like, what you don't like a lot, a lot of people At my family were like the pain the pain back then like, why don't you go get epidural, it's painful pregnancy of birth is painful. And so but I would talk through things like I don't, you know, I'm very like, let's talk about it, you know. And so, but then, but then like I said, I had my grandmother, who was like, No, I love having hombres on until, you know, at a certain point, of course, they didn't have access to the midwives anymore. And so they had to go into the hospital. And so that's what she talks about, like had like, missing it with her younger kids, because she had home births with her first and our oldest three. But yeah, there are many, many more breast breastfeeding folks in my family now, like, you know, most of most of my cousins, like breastfeed now. They call me like, I have doula for some of my other cousins. You know, I have done childbirth education, virtual childbirth education for some of my cousins. And yeah, I mean, not that many people homework still, it's still not like my brother, like, even my brother was apprehensive about the homework, you know, her having a homework, but like, he trusted me, and because he knew I was gonna be there. So he trusted me. And he trusted. The midwife that I chose, because she was at my first my first birth. And so I will tell you, her birth was a really, really long birth. And at one point, her brother started panicking and call this woman that he knew that she is like a doula. And so she called and was like, talking shit about me to my brother, I'm gonna go does that look like she'll know, she I know that she'll know she's doing. So my brother's like, whatever. We're like, they're not paying attention, because like, literally, she's contracting. But it ended up being a very beautiful birth, she had like, no complications, it just was a long, she just, it was just a long work, you know, some birthday long. She was in birth in labor for like, 72 hours. It was a very, very long road. But um, she, she, she raves about it, like she loves it. And she's like, I am so grateful for y'all. It was such a beautiful experience. And I think, you know, people are coming around, people are coming around. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=6802.0,7036.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nSo you touch really quickly on part of the incarnation of granola is homeschooling your kids, and I'm so curious about what being an unschooling mama looks like for you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=7036.0,7045.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton \n\nYes, it's so you know, it's changed so much over the course of like, you know, when, how old they are, you know, how, whatever ages they are. But when I had one, it was so much easier, because you only got to figure out the interest of one person and negotiate that. But what's funny is when when my when I had my son, we were like, hella broke. But like, I became known as like the person who you could go to, for all the free and low cost activities around the city. Like I had a calendar, like I have a blog. And on my blog, I used to make a calendar, like almost sounds like here are all the things you could do with your with your child. Now I just have it as a Google Doc that I share with friends like here's the Google like, here's everything for you know, different, you know, all the different places, here's their schedules. But really, it's like, let's go out and be in the world. Let's do things. And then once you figure out something that you're interested in, how are we going to continue to do that? What does that look like? So with my daughter, I'm gonna talk about her so she's right here. She is, all things aren't seeing. So we she she was always flitting around the house like wanting to dance. And so we put her in ballet, she excels in ballet. She's like this. She wants to do her first Nutcracker next Saturday's I first met cracker performance are very excited. But she like she did one year Ballet, the end of the year ballet they gave her a scholarship because of her performance, so she's continued to get scholarships. She loves that. She's very dramatic. As you can see from that isn't very dramatic. Right? So so she's in musical theater. She's been been musical theater since she was maybe five. And loves it. She's you know, she's used to take she she because she's a musical theater. We put her in vocal and voice lessons. She's like, I hate this. We're like, okay, cool. Don't do that. She's like, very limber. So, you know, we just find the thing that she likes. She loves painting and art like she's very, very talented artists. I mean, from my perspective, I'm biased. Yeah, she got up to like, Why thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=7045.0,7185.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nI love it. I love it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=7185.0,7187.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nSo like she has gotten into graphic art. So diminishers My husband has a friend who's who's a professional graphic artist. So we're like, link out with people who we know who do these things and be like, Hey, you can You talk to her about things you want to talk to her about that you got some tips, what the programs that we should get for her so she can really step in to it, but also not pushing it right so like when she started wanting to do graphics she said she wanted to do to us to learn procreate. So we got her an iPad, Apple pencil for Christmas last year. And then we got procreate, but she got on it. And she was like, this is hard. I'm not doing this. I'm gonna do this other program. And we're like, Are you sure like you want to try it? I can we can find the classes who like nah, but she likes kept teaching herself. And she's a tick soccer. Both that she makes six sacks and she watched six shots. And so she was teaching herself from six second YouTube, how to do procreate. And so now she's solely on procreate. My oldest has been a history buff from jump. So I will tell you, I'll tell you like a little bit of like, our journey with him because he's our first unschooling, and it's all so much of it is trust, that, like he learned, he taught himself to read, he taught himself to read, because he's been a big gamer. Since forever. He's always been into video games. And on the video games, he would have to call us in the room be like, mom read this part. I don't know what it says. So you have to read it to him. And he got frustrated having to call us to read stuff all the time. So he started to pick up what it was saying. And he taught himself how to read and we didn't really know, like the extent of it until you know, he's always been like, he's, he's a nerdy kid. So it was like video games, comic books, anime, manga, all that. So he will be so we were reading a Ninja Turtles comic book one day. And he was like, No, I'm gonna read it. I'm like that. He's like, yes. Okay. So he's reading. And I'm like, How do you know how to read this word? And he will read the Word and I'm like, But wait, are you sounding out? Do you know? Do you know this? Where he like? No, it means that that that, like, that's how he like he learned to read from like reading his comic books, reading his really hits video games. And then numbers. Math has always been a struggle. But he learned largely because we tried to, I think partially because we tried to push him into learning because we had things I had my own anxieties around his ability to learn math naturally. And so part of like you pushing them into doing things that they start to believe they can do it, if they can't catch if they're not ready for it. And so he shuts down around that. But the way the child learns to recognize number, he could recognize three digit numbers, but he could recognize like, once people had said, and I 10 Because he learned numbers, from bus from the bus numbers. Because we were on a bus. Hold on was like, Yes. Hold on. Yes, it's the gotchu. From the bus numbers, and he was very, it's a football. So he would learn the player numbers. And so he'd be like, that's number 15. That's number 22. But like, all I don't order, but he knew like, oh, there's like this the 150 We gotta we take the 155. And then because he was so into football, we got him a map, because he wanted to know where all the teams were. And so he knew he could find on the map, he could tell you on the map where Green Bay was, they didn't tell you on a map where like all these so like, that was like what what, like, he just got really into it. But then he got into wrestling into wrestling and into wrestling got him very much into rock and particular metal. Because, you know, all of those are like their intro music. A lot of them have metal songs and intro music. Like I really it's a metal, but then he then so his love of comic books alongside his love of metal, let's say a love of history, because he started to learn the context for all the songs and all the comic books, because he he loves documentaries. So he will be like, yes, this song is in reaction to Reagan. And Reagan the light and he is somehow amazing with dates. Like if you asked me that, like you, I can't even tell you the dates in my own life. But he will be like, yes, because the Sega Genesis came out in AC 83 And this came out and like like he will you give him anything like it will be something that he might not even like really know for sure. But he will take that his his understanding of the concepts of the thing and give you a year and it will be somewhere in the ballpark. Like because he just has like this historical context in his head is timeline in his head. That is fascinating. And will just be like yo, why why do you know this? And then when he discovered that, so a friend of mine runs StoryCorps, Atlanta, the southeast. And his brother is a historian, but writes books about the history of video games. And so when I told him that you could be a historian I have video games. He was like, This is my life. This is it for me. But now he's found his way to Black Studies. So he's like taking right right now he's taking some classes online and some things. He's a high school age. Now. He's 15. And he wants to go to college. So we're trying. So now we're like, oh, shit, we got to do things that we can write up in a, you know, in a portfolio that we can use, you know, in lieu of a transcript. So it's a little bit more formal now for us. So some, sometimes he's taking classes sometimes he's not. So right now he's taking an AP US History class online. And he's, he is the second youngest person in the class, one of the only kids who's not an upperclassman. And he is excelling in that class. I am like, he's a solid be average. And he's so much so like, he just so well to his teachers, like he didn't do well on his tests. But I know it's probably a question of test taking, because I know he knows the material because I see him. He's so good in class. He does so well. But you know, so like, he's having to learn like schoolish things like how to take tests, how to stay on a deadline, how to take notes, but he's learning all those things real time, but it's, but he's picking it up pretty well, because it's in the service of something he's interested in. So, until the first one that looks like that, like we have some one class, he take me online, he has one class, we bought a curriculum for bio online, but that like matches our own values and politics. Like there's no dissection in this class, there's no like, we you know, we this is a practical like bio practical, you know, so there's one of the things he had to do one of the big projects for the years, he has to read The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks, and talk about bio and write a paper about bioethics, that kind of thing. Because it's so much like so much of the curriculum was like very Christian, very Christian, and we are not so. So yeah, and but then meanwhile, with ASHA, it's like, let's go to art museums, let's go to you know, oh, and then but also with him, like, we have one class that we're sort of making up and he's like, I want to learn about the Harlem Renaissance. I'm like, that will make that be your English class. What should we study? We'll get the North Norton Anthology, and let that be the baseline. And so he's like, reading so he read this poem by an Spencer and he was like, Was she a feminist? So now he's like reading so we found this article on JSTOR, about Anne Spencer and feminist poetics. So he's reading that right now. Like, that's, that's what I'm schooling was like. But yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=7187.0,7661.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nhave you built a community around unschooling here in Atlanta? Are there other families that do it with you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=7661.0,7667.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nYes, um, one thing I will say that is my sweet spot is being able to find and or build community. So for me, that's like a different a couple of different ways. One, we've been in some homeschooling unschooling communities, but also we built communities around other things. So one of the things we did as a family pre pandemic, of course, was we started a business, a family, business continuity, black kids. And it was basically an opportunity for us to create programming. And spate create opportunities for black kids who are into nerdy things to find themselves to find each other, and to see themselves in nerd culture. And so we had a video game and a video game club and a video game team. We had a comic book, a Manga Club, they were just about, like, they were about to, they were planning a podcast, it's like they want to do a podcast. And so they were planning a podcast and then a pandemic, and so everything stopped. But we would do we go, you know, do movie outings. So we go to the movies together, and we'd go out to eat and they would talk about the movies together. And early pandemic, they would game online together. But yeah, so we created a community like that, but also Atlanta is a great place to homeschool, because there are tons of black homeschool families here. And there are a bunch of already existing homeschool groups, so we didn't have to create any. But when we started unschooling there were not as there were not as many unschool black homeschool families as they are now. And so, I would find aging myself, I will find a lot of community and Yahoo groups. So they will be like all these like unschooling Yahoo groups. And so when I find other black people, I will send them a message directly, like, Hey, are you I see you're in Atlanta. And so that's how I really like I've met a lot of people and then when things moved to Facebook groups, then I found a lot of community and Facebook groups. You know, whenever there's a Facebook homeschool Facebook group, there's always like a thread. That's like, tell us where you are. Are you in Georgia drop your GSA here that you're in Georgia or where you are in Georgia. And so we find community that way. So like one of his, one of his friends is not a homeschooler. But her mom is in in Atlanta Black Nerd Facebook group, and was like, Hey, I have a daughter she's 15 she's into this isn't that to any of y'all have kids that might be interested in hanging out with her because she's having a hard time finding other kids in her school that look like her, they're into the same thing. So I was like, bet we should link so and now they're like, very familiar, like very close friends. So that's sort of how how we've gone about but I have been very, very involved at different points, different levels of involvement in the homeschooling unschooling community. And so at one point when Imani was a toddler preschooler was involved in like we were planning a black on black on schooler conference to end up not happening but it finally happened a few years ago, virtually it happened in Japan in 2020 virtually for the first time and then have just you know, have done some speaking I have not like I'm speaking on schooling, I'm not I don't love speaking like doing a lot of public speaking, I like to play the background personally. So I but I do when I do when I'm asked to. So have done some speaking on like, you know, podcasts and things like that around the work that we do around unschooling broadly. And then of course, we found it I'm learning Co Op, the Andrew Cooper living living at Anna Julia Cooper learning and liberation center. That was self directed education space. And we're building out that model until COVID. That was really grounded in both radical queer black feminist politics and, and a cooperative framework and human rights framework and, and self directed education as its foundation. So I've been building communities and of course, people have asked us to, you know, we've been places and spoke about, about that, in the model that we've been building there. And you know, my friend of mine, honey Akela. Richards, who I think is probably the most known black homeschooler in the country. But she and her book, raising three people she talks about, she does a little profile on me, but talks specifically about the learning center in the book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=7667.0,7941.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nYeah. Yeah, thank you for sharing about that. I'm really, really interested in schooling. And you're right. I mean, I have one of the most robust black communities unschoolers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=7941.0,7954.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton\n\nAnd a lot of a lot of the folks who are homeschoolers, when I met them are not on school. There's a lot more people are moving that way. So yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=7954.0,7964.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nSo I wanted to kind of shift back into RJ and particularly thinking about the impact of everything, a couple of years past pandemic, but particularly the latest legislation, doubts versus Jackson that overturn Roe. How's that impacted? Your? Yes, sir. JC Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=7964.0,7988.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nI would like to add to that. Yeah. But like, I think one interesting perspective of your organizing work is that you kind of felt like RJ had already kind of been there for you. And you had already been moving towards that, but also adding in your work around abolition. And so like really curious about, like the intersections of abolition and incarceration to RJ and specifically around the Dobbs Jack versus Jackson decision, as we understand that this might create a new wave of incarceration for women and people who give birth?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=7988.0,8028.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton \n\nAbsolutely. I mean, I think it's a there are a lot of ways in which, you know, I know, y'all know this, that the prison industrial complex and the world of birthing and repro have intersected over many years, right, like going back, one of the first jobs I ever apply for after college was with national advocates of pregnant women, who at that time was doing work in South Carolina, around you know, people being incarcerated for being used as during a pregnancy incarcerated for child endangerment, things like that. So there's all this long standing intersection way in which hospitals broadly the medical industrial complex and the prison industrial complex intersects and in which that intersection imposes itself on on the bodies of you know, people who can give birth and as part it is part of the conversation, we're having a going back to black women working in resistance as well which is like that, you know, the, the control of birthing bodies and in particular black birthing bodies through institutionalization in a lot of ways, through incarceration through enslavement is, but it's so much in the DNA of our story in this country? Well, I think about dogs, I think it's really an extension of that is really an extension of the attempts of force. Force folks that have had babies. And then and in particular, and not just for us, but And that's not just forcing, but also controlling, like this broader picture of controlling when who gets to have babies, when they get to have babies, why they get to have babies, etc. Because I'm also thinking about this that forced sterilization of folks in prisons in California, the formalization of folks and immigrants, you know, immigration and immigration, detention facilities in Irwin County, Georgia. So all of those all of those pieces, right. And then I think that is that it will be interesting, because there is a certain a certain insidiousness of threatening incarceration, not just a pregnant people, but also of healthcare providers. Right. So like, what does it mean? It's a question of, What will people risk? What are people willing to put on the line? For women and other folks who give birth, right, like, are doctors willing to lose their license to risk their freedom for the sake of allowing folks to control their own reproduction. And it's a it's a moment for me that harkens back to, you know, previous abolition movements, that slide who is willing to stand by folks who is willing to put it all on the line, to be accomplices. And I think that it's especially troubling in a country with the with the rates of incarceration that we have here. Right. So I think one of the things that I that I have heard people saying in the past year is we should look to Mexico, we should look at some of these other places that have have really robust movements that have shifted the ground, and that did not rely on legislation to give people access to abortion. And I'm like, Yes, we should. And context is important. Because Mexico does not have a prison industrial complex that looks like ours, Mexico doesn't have a surveillance state, in the same way that we do, right. And so we have to be, there's a trouble. That is, there is a thing that happens often, even domestically in the movement, where we try to lift strategies from one context and drop them in another. And there is a danger in that we put our folks at risk. And the people who get who are most at who will be put most at risk are the folks who are already most at risk. And so we have to be mindful of that, as we're thinking about our strategies, as we're thinking about what you know, what our approach has to be. And as we are recognizing that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=8028.0,8294.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nwe have to, we have to use all strength, we have to use all the tactics at our disposal, by any means necessary is is like it's like every tactic at our disposal. Whatever, you know, in whatever tactic people, people feel like throwing down on like that, that can't like we can't have this dynamic where we're like, we're we're saying this is the right tactic, because we're not gonna win that way. We're just not right, we have to have every tactic. And it's so interesting when you think about it. I'm getting a little I'm veering a little bit off of your question. But one of the things that's really interesting to me is, I don't know if y'all saw this article that came out, I think a couple maybe two weeks ago that with the guy who used to be a right wing, conservative preacher talking about the Supreme Court leaks and how how they had orchestrated to get access to information that people hadn't gotten access to. So he's basically accused have accused justices of leaking prior to dabs leaking information about remember the Hobby Lobby case from a few years ago around contraception access, leaking the ruling, before it was public. And he was basically talking about how these they had put their offices across the street from Supreme Court so they could get a handle on who worked at the Supreme Court and not just the justices, but who worked there, so that they could and then befriended those folks. So one of them was a black guy who was a pastor who worked at the at the court, that this guy, the conservative guy, preached at his church so they could build a rapport, they could get access to information shouldn't have access to people. And then they had orchid organize to get these wealthy white conservatives in the inner circles of the justices. So what he's saying how he how that played out was that one of the couples that they had trained to become friends with the justices had dinner with with with one of the justices and his wife, and that justice, you know, leaked information leaked the decision to them just was like, oh, yeah, because this is what's going to happen. And this is who basically says before the decision came out, they knew what the decision was, and who wrote the decision. And there's all these email all this documentation, that proves that they did, in fact, know this information before it came out. And so when I was reading this article, I'm like, yo, they are playing a different fucking game than we are. They are playing a different game than we are, we are not even in the game that they are in. And if we don't get our shit together, there is no way we are winning. If we don't recognize that we have to have use every tactic at our disposal, because they are playing a different game. They are like now we are golfing with the Supreme Court justices. They don't even they don't even recognize that the couples that they are having dinner with are involved with these people who have this other plan. They this guy had got himself on the board of the the historical society that holds the like records for the Supreme Court, like this is the kind of shit that they are on. And so I think the risk is so great. The risk is so great. That we have to be clear about the risk of of this is the same Supreme Court that is dismantling fundamental rights in multiple arenas. They are they are hearing cases that are yes about abortion access. But they're also about the way in which like, who gets to hear whatever it What Can Can you appeal to the federal government on a cake to federal courts on a case that is a state cake, they are this, all this shit is intertwined. Right. And so we have to have an approach that is not siloed, both in our understanding of the threat and the risk, but also in our strategy and tactic. We can't be operating in silos, the impact is too great. The impact Imagine, imagine the number like black folks and black women and poor folks already are incarcerated at race at far outpace their numbers in the broader country, right? There their per capita, right? What if you're talking about those folks being the folks who have the least access to private doctors who might hydro records? Who might, you know, say, who most need access to abortion care? Who leaves have access? Who are who may then also be the most at risk for if they are charging pregnant folks? Right? That is the danger there is so high, that we have to think about how we use tactics that take risks, but don't don't levy all the risk on the folks who are already most at risk. Does that make sense? What I'm saying? So I think it's a, I think we're at a, at a difficult crossroads. Right. I think we're in a difficult moment and thinking about how we strategize and how we navigate through all of the historical tensions and traumas inside of the repro space. So that we can have the most holistic strategy possible, how we come out of I think that we are in this space. And I think that it's a beautiful thing that apple that like repro and abolition have found more connected more connective tissue, and that folks who are in repro, also talking about abolition, or vice versa. Because the, the apparent newness, so to speak, of the connection between all these things, all that stuff is floating to the air, like the way that we used to be like, No, but it's all connected. But it's all connected. And it felt like a conspiracy theory. But now it's like, no, no, look, you can see it now. It's actually all connected. And if it's all connected, we can't attack one part over here and you attack one part over here, we actually have to dismantle the whole thing together. And we have to be building and working together we have to build a strategy that is cohesive, because nobody knows better how to protect our folks from incarceration and folks who are abolitionists And nobody knows better how to get our folks access to reproductive health care and folks who are in repro. And nobody knows better how to protect queer and trans folks who need the birth then folks in the court liberation movement, right. And if we are not talking to each other,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=8294.0,8717.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins\n\nthen we lose.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=8717.0,8720.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nBecause their their strategy is sophisticated. And ours has to be sophisticated, too. That's not the question y'all asked me. But I went, but nothing. Yes, sir. That's what was on my spirit. So yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=8720.0,8740.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nyou took us there. And so, I mean, you already started touching on it. But what, what is the end goal look like? What is reproductive liberation look like to you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=8740.0,8751.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nHmm. I think that's a really good question. Because I feel like we've been talking a lot about justice for a long time. And justice and liberation are not necessarily the same thing, right? So it just really works not often not the same thing, because justice relies on us thinking inside of a particular inside of a particular framework that already exists, right. Which is why I think abolition is a much better framework than criminal justice, because, or, or you know what I'm saying? Thinking about the justice system, because the justice system does that there is no justice there. What is reproductive liberation look like? I mean, I think honestly, I think reproductive liberation only exists inside of a broader liberation framework. It only exists inside of a world where we're free and all the aspects, right. I don't have control over my own body. If I don't also have access to food, you know, what I'm saying? If I don't also have a place to live. And so I think that the that the quest, the ultimate goal is liberation period. And that looks like true, a truly democratic society. wherein we have our voices, where we have self determination, individually and collectively, what our individual self absorbed. Self Determination is, we recognize how it's tied up in the self determination of our folks. And so we are not self determining in ways that harm encroach upon the freedoms of etc, etc. are folks that we see ourselves, there was something I just watched this video with Ruthie Gilmore with Wilson Gilmore. And she says something about like radical dependency being key to liberation. And I was like, come through the always comes through. And so that, I think is something that feels inherently inherently necessary for this broader picture of liberation. That is like, abolition cannot exist if we don't see how we depend on each other. Right? Because we continue to harm each other, if we don't see how we are each necessary to each other. And so I think reproductive liberation cannot exist. If we don't see how we are dependent on each other. Democracy does not exist without that, right. Even in all like, in in its truest form, not in the shit that they call democracy today. Right. But like the mod like, like true democracy, true collective governance, I will say, does not exist without that. And so I think that's really when she said it. I was like, oh, that's the core. That's what I feel like COBOL was trying to build that's what I feel like you don't say, like, that's what I feel like Thomas Sankara was trying to build. It's like this radical dependency. There's understand. And that's what I think I grandmama was was trying to build, right. And communities. That's what like, if we look at what, what I think about going back to like my own childhood, my own growing up my own hometown. One of the things that my my, my grandfather talked about was like there's a community center, and in the community Senator used to be there. It used to be a different building, but it was a place where you could go, if you needed something, if somebody if there was some harm happening. You could send somebody to a center they will come intervene. They will if there was somebody was hurt if somebody needed food, because we because on an island, they knew they knew they needed each other. They were they were community and they knew they didn't have access to police. They probably didn't like their access. to doctors was limited. And so all they had was each other. And so they were able to build that. And I think that we have a we have to get that's the place that I want to get to. I think that we're we're constantly like, there, there is a role for the work of making interventions with the state. And there is a role for the work of building institutions and building, building a radical dependency, building understand building most mutual aid networks, but like both of those things have to happen, because of course, we can build all the things that we want, but then they come in, you know, Tulsa, Oklahoma, they come in and say at you thought, you know, so we have to actually dismantle the state, but we have to be and we have to be building and we have to do both of those things. in that building. I think it's not, it's not just building alternatives to the things that exist in a state, but it's also building a collective understanding of who we are and who we have to be to each other.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=8751.0,9061.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nI love it. Yes. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=9061.0,9072.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nThis is excellent. I'm just sitting with with it all. I mean, that was that was my last question. So religious sitting with it, don't you see has another question though, go for it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=9072.0,9084.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nOur first question that we forgot to ask, which is, who do you dedicate your oral history to?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=9084.0,9093.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nBlue, I dedicate my oral history. So I try to keep my oral history to my kids. As it became oral history, so my kids, there's this, this sister who's here, she's a priestess, and also a therapist, and every year she does a vision board party. Of course, that's been gone for a couple years because a pandemic but she's bringing it back this year. And, but she's like, instead of doing like a vision board, like we normally do, the theme this year is what kind of ancestors you want to be like, it's like a lineage build a lineage building party. And I think a lot about that. I think a lot about that. I had some, you know, been in conversation with Alexis Pauline Gumbs around this sort of, you know, what are we what are we leaving behind? And I yeah, I think so. I think my kids or my kids, kids kids, I think input then also, so my mama and my mom was mamas mamas. So really, I would say I dedicated to my lineage. But before me and after me, is why we dedicate this budget.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=9093.0,9160.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nThank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=9160.0,9161.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  \n\nThank you. Did she say for making sure we accept?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=9161.0,9166.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton  \n\nThat's a good question. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=9166.0,9174.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee  2:","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=9174.0,5574.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/transcript/94390/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, unless you have any other contributions that you want to make sure it gets into this. I will stop recording. You're good. Good. Okay. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=5574.0,9216.92469"}]},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/index/89470","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Tamika Middleton: “Building a radical dependency” 07-10-2025 10:23 [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/index/89470/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interview Introduction","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=17.0,168.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/index/89470/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tamika Middleton introduces themselves.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=17.0,168.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/index/89470/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ashby Combahee","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta, Georgia","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Georgia","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Spelman College Archives","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"organizer","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"birthworker","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"birth justice","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"doula","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"midwife","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"midwife apprentice","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=17.0,168.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/index/89470/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Tight Knit Community in Childhood","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138#t=168.0,937.0"},{"id":"https://georgiadusk.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3309/collection_resources/150111/file/276138/index/89470/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"T. 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